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Waltzing More Than Matilda

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Waltzing More Than Matilda

Tag Archives: British Baby Names

Take Five For Waltzing More Than Matilda’s Fifth Birthday!

14 Sunday Feb 2016

Posted by A.O. in Blog News

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

Appellation Mountain, Baby Name Pondering, Bewitching Names, British Baby Names, celebrity baby names, celebrity sibsets, Facebook, For Real Baby Names, Nameberry, Swistle, Sydney Morning Herald, The Australian, The Herald Sun, Twitter, Upswing Baby Names, Wikipedia, You Can't Call It "It"!

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Yesterday marked five years since I started Waltzing More Than Matilda. Time seems to have flown while I had fun, because it feels as if I have only just started, and still have lots to learn. For my fifth blogging anniversary, here are the top five results in various categories from Waltzing More Than Matilda.

Waltzing With … Names
Waltzing With … Taiga
Waltzing With … Archibald
Waltzing With … Lawson
Waltzing With … Mary
Waltzing With … Sunniva

Famous and Requested Names
Famous Name: Barack
Famous Name: Adelaide
Famous Name: Molly
Requested Famous Name: Banjo
Requested Name: Dimity

Names from Name Lists
Girls Names of Australian Aboriginal Origin
Girls Names From Stars and Constellations
Boys Names From Stars and Constellations
Boys Names of Australian Aboriginal Origin
Names of Convicts on the First Fleet

Articles
Upper Class Baby Names
Finding Baby Names to Match Your Surname
You Can’t Call it That: What the Law Says About Naming Baby
What Happens if You Don’t Register Your Baby’s Name?
Choosing Between Two Baby Names

Celebrity Babies
Virginia Trioli and Russell Skelton
Miranda Kerr and Orlando Bloom
Mick and Angie Molloy
Leigh Sales and Phil Willis
Livinia Nixon and Alistair Jack

Celebrity Sibsets
Brody Dalle and Josh Homme
Dave Hughes
Richard Roxburgh and Silvia Colloca
Kate Langbroek
The Daddo Brothers

Name Help
A Girl’s Name From an Aboriginal Language Meaning “Star”
Can You Suggest an Old-Fashioned Sibling Name That’s Nickname-Proof?
Can You Suggest Any Vintage Names for This Couple?
Is Margot the Next Big Thing?
Can You Suggest an Australian-Themed Name for the Third Triplet?

Interviews
Bewitching Names
Swistle
You Can’t Call It “It”!
Appellation Mountain
For Real Baby Names

Most Commented Articles
What Do You Think of These Names for Twin Girls?
Girls Names Which Rose in Popularity in 2012
Is Cressida a Girl Name or a Car Name?
Why Your Child Will Hate Their Name
Underused Names for Girls

Favourite Pictures (most often clicked on)
The Turnbull Family Wedding
The Newton Family Christening
Kangaroo at Lucky Bay
Japanese Tiger
Miranda Kerr and Orlando Bloom

Top Referrers (you most likely came here from ….)
Search engines
Facebook
Appellation Mountain
Nameberry
Wikipedia

Top Clicks (you most likely leave my site to go to ….)
The Herald Sun
The Australian
Nameberry
Twitter
The Sydney Morning Herald

Favourite Blogs on Blog Roll (most often clicked on)
Appellation Mountain
Baby Name Pondering
Upswing Baby Names
For Real Baby Names
British Baby Names

Top Countries (you are most likely in …)
Australia
United States
United Kingdom
Canada
New Zealand

Top Search Terms
waltzing more than matilda
flynn christopher bloom
virginia trioli baby
lynette bolton
sydney

Top Names Searched For
Hazel
Ruby
Ella
Olivia
Rose

Top Commenters
Prue
Clare
Ebony
Madelyn
Nana Patricia

Thank you to all my readers, subscribers, followers, and commenters for five years of enjoyable blogging! And have a happy Valentine’s Day!

I Now Pronounce You, Lucia – But How?

24 Saturday Oct 2015

Posted by A.O. in Naming Assistance

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

British Baby Names, choosing baby names, Eleanor Nickerson, Facebook, fictional namesakes, Italian names, locational names, nicknames, pronunciation, Roman names

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Catherine and her husband are putting together a long list of names for their baby, due next year. One of the names they are seriously considering is Lucia.

Catherine loves the English pronunciation for the name – LOO-sha, or LOO-shee-uh – as an interesting variation of Lucy. However, she is very wary about giving her little girl a lifetime of explaining and correcting the pronunciation of her name.

There are a few women named Lucia in Catherine’s family tree during the 19th century, and Catherine is of English and Irish ancestry. She wonders how these Lucias would have pronounced their names.

Catherine also wonders if anyone can help identify some characters named Lucia in English literature. There are plenty called Lucy and Lucinda, but precious few Lucias. She can think of Lucia from E.F. Benson’s Mapp and Lucia books (but Lucia is just a nickname and said the Italian way), and there is Lucia di Lammermoor from the Italian opera, but the character’s real name is Lucy, Lucia is an Italian translation of it.

* * * * * * * * * *

Catherine, I think there might be two questions you are asking here about Lucia’s pronunciation

1. Is there a traditional or historical British pronunciation of Lucia, perhaps even one which can be referred to as a “correct” pronunciation for English-speakers?
2. How would the majority of Australians say the name Lucia, to give you an idea of how often it might need to be explained or corrected in everyday life?

These are highly intelligent and practical questions, but unfortunately I don’t think I have a definitive answer to either of them.

I can tell you the correct historical pronunciation of Lucia – it’s LOO-kee-uh. It’s a Roman name, and that’s how the ancient Romans would have said it. Needless to say, nobody says it this way, which perhaps puts a bit of a question mark over the usefulness of correct historical pronunciations.

As far as I know, English-speakers say both LOO-sha and loo-SEE-uh. Which one your ancestors might have used is a bit of a puzzle. The Caribbean island of St. Lucia is said LOO-sha, which seems like it should be a clue, but perhaps isn’t.

It also occurs to me that Italian travel and culture was incredibly fashionable for the upper classes in Britain in the 19th century, which makes me wonder if your ancestors (if upper class or social climbers in even a mild way) might have used the Italian pronunciation, loo-CHEE-uh, to signal how cultured they were.

I will make a point of posting this article on the Facebook page for British Baby Names, in the hopes that name expert Elea Nickerson might be able to shed some light on the issue.

As to how most Australians would pronounce Lucia, I think it depends a lot on where they’re from. Anyone from an area with a significant Italian population is probably going to say loo-CHEE-uh. I would imagine that Italian-Australians would almost always say loo-CHEE-uh, and in a few cases, might persist with that pronunciation even after being told the person prefers it said another way.

I would probably say loo-SEE-uh if I saw it written down, maybe because of the name Lucy (I also tend to say LOO-see-us and LOO-see-an for the male names). I have met many other Australians who say loo-SEE-uh, although it seems to be less common than loo-CHEE-uh. In fact I’ve noticed a lot of Australians seem to think loo-SEE-uh is a mispronunciation of loo-CHEE-uh!

A friend in Brisbane tells me that everyone she knows says LOO-sha, because that’s how the exclusive suburb of St. Lucia in Brisbane is pronounced. It’s named after the Caribbean island, which is why it has the same pronunciation.

From my extremely unscientific polling of friends and relatives in different parts of the country, loo-CHEE-uh is the most common by far, then loo-SEE-uh, then LOO-sha – except in Queensland where LOO-sha seems most common.

Of course, once you are introduced to a Lucia and she says her name aloud, you automatically say it the way she does. It shouldn’t really need to be “corrected” unless you see her name written down first (on a class list, for example) and have to guess the pronunciation.

I think it is a name where you have to get good at introducing yourself clearly and firmly so people immediately understand the way you want it said. It’s also a name where if you travel around the world, you would need to be tolerant of people saying your name in different ways. I do think pronunciation might be an issue (unless you’re in Brisbane), but hopefully not to the point where it really bothers you.

You’re right that Lucia is not a very literary name. Like you, the first two things I think of are the Lucia from Mapp and Lucia, and Lucia di Lammermoor. For the uninitiated, the character from Mapp and Lucia is named Emmeline Lucas, so Lucia is a nickname from her surname. She uses the Italian pronunciation, which the author E.F. Benson seems to suggest is rather pretentious for an English person.

There’s a Lucia in the fantasy novel series Falling Kingdoms by Morgan Rhodes. She is a beautiful princess with great magical power, and the novels link her name with the meaning of “light”. There’s a mildly icky quasi-incest plotline.

Chick-lit novel Lucia, Lucia by Adriana Trigiani is set in post-war New York. Lucia is an Italian-American girl with a passion for fashion, but it’s the 1950s so good luck with those career aspirations.

In Lucia’s Eyes by Arthur Japin is a historical novel about an Italian servant girl who is the first lover of the famous Casanova. That leads almost directly to international prostitution, and a hideous facial disfigurement doesn’t seem to be a barrier to her profession.

The Lucia Chronicles by Jennifer L. Kelly feature Lucia Giroux and are set in a dystopian near-future in the United States. The name Lucia is again linked with the theme of “light”.

The trouble with all these namesakes is none of them are particularly positive. Emmeline aka Lucia is comically, even lovably, ghastly, while Lucia di Lammermoor goes mad and stabby. None of the others have great experiences, with incestuous love, broken dreams, a poxy face, and destroyed illusions in store for them. Lucias in books are clearly in for a tragic time.

Better to concentrate on the name’s other attributes. It’s pretty and elegant with a beautiful meaning and tons of nickname options, and is fashionable yet still underused. Isn’t that enough?

UPDATE: The baby was a girl, and her name is Margaret!

POLL RESULTS
Most people thought the name Lucia would probably need more explanations and corrections than usual because of its different pronunciations, but nothing that couldn’t be coped with. There was a significant number that thought it would be a major issue.
45% said Lucia would need more corrections than usual, but that it wasn’t necessarily a huge problem
30% said Lucia would need to be corrected a lot
13% said Lucia would need to be explained and corrected every single time upon meeting someone new
10% didn’t think Lucia would need more correction than any other name
One person thought Lucia would “hardly ever” need correction, and one optimistic soul was sure it would never need it

44% of people pronounced Lucia loo-CHEE-uh
43% said it loo-SEE-uh
12% said it LOO-sha
One person said it LOO-cha

(Picture shows an artist’s impression of Lucia from Falling Kingdoms)

Famous Name: Eleanor

16 Wednesday Sep 2015

Posted by A.O. in Famous Names

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

aristocratic names, British Baby Names, classic names, created names, Eleanor Nickerson, famous namesakes, flower names, French names, germanic names, Greek names, honouring, name history, name meaning, name popularity, popular names, Provencal names, royal names, Sanskrit names, Sindarin names, UK name popularity, US name popularity

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Famous Namesakes
Last month was the 114th birthday of author Eleanor Dark, who was born August 26 1901. Her most famous novel is The Timeless Land, published in 1941, the first in a trilogy about early European settlement. Sympathetic towards Aboriginal people and meticulously researched, the book was part of the high school curriculum for many years and is now considered an Australian classic. It even inspired the famous historian Manning Clark. It was turned into a successful TV series in 1980.

When Eleanor married Eric Dark, a widowed doctor, she asked for three things: an equal partnership, a child, and the freedom to write. Eleanor got a studio in the garden where she could write in peace, a maid to help with the housework, and emotional support and encouragement for her writing. Her other wish was granted when she and Eric had a son named Michael; they already had a son named John, from Eric’s first marriage.

Thoughtful and generous, the Darks shared progressive ideals. An active member of the Labor left, Eric wrote political books and pamphlets which attracted attention from the anti-communist Menzies government and ASIO, and the entire Dark family was probably under surveillance. Although she considered herself apolitical, Eleanor’s socialist and feminist views permeate her work, and she was a scathing critic of middle-class suburbia.

The Darks moved to Katoomba in the Blue Mountains in 1923, and enjoyed bush walking, camping, climbing, and exploring. Eleanor was one of the first gardeners to grow Australian native plants as well as exotics. In her novels, the Australian landscape is not just a backdrop but almost another character. She believed that as people change the environment, the environment also changes us, and that we are part of the country in both mind and body. In her books are some of the most beautiful and loving evocations of the bush; its scents and sounds, its silence and spirit.

After Eleanor died in 1985, her son Michael gave the Dark family home in Katoomba to the Eleanor Dark Foundation. Named Varuna after the Hindu god of the ocean, the night sky, and the underworld, the house sits on a ridge overlooking the valleys of the Blue Mountains. Varuna is now a residential retreat, where authors can find a room of their own, and uninterrupted writing time; Eleanor’s studio is still in use. It was a wonderful gift for Eleanor as an author, and now for many others too.

Name Information
Eleanor is the modern form of Éléonore, the Old French form of the Provençal name Aliénor. Eleanor of Aquitaine (born around 1122) is often identified as the first bearer of the name Aliénor, and a popular story is that her name came about because she was christened Aénor, and as her mother’s name was also Aénor, she was known as alia Aénor, meaning “the other Aénor”. This suggestion was labelled “ridiculous” by a French scholar in the 17th century, but is still going strong.

There were earlier women with similar names – Eleanor of Aquitaine’s own great-grandmother is listed as Aleanor. However, the records for these early Eleanors post-date Eleanor of Aquitaine, so their names could have been conveniently translated into Eleanor (or Alienor or Aleanor) by later writers.

Eleanor of Aquitaine’s great-grandmother’s name seems to have been more like Adenorde, sometimes written as Ainor. It would be a reasonable assumption that Aénor was a variant of this name, and Aliénor was too. The origin of Adenorde is obscure, but looks to be Germanic.

Eleanor “Elea” Nickerson from British Baby Names suggests it could be from the Germanic name element adal, meaning “noble”, or from ald, meaning “old, mature, grown up”. The norde looks like the Germanic for “north. Another of Eleanor Nickerson’s suggestions is that it could be related to those Germanic names starting with aud-, meaning “wealth, riches”.

Another popular theory is that Eleanor is a Provençal form of Helen, Ellen, or Elena – also of ancient and obscure origin. Helen is usually said to be from the Greek for “light, bright”, although it may be ultimately from Sanskrit and mean “running, swift” (quite suitable for a runaway bride like Helen of Troy!). The reason for the Eleanor = Helen idea is probably because Eleanor of Aquitaine had her name Latinised as Helienordis. At the very least it is possible that the name Eleanor was influenced by the various Helen names, becoming fused (or confused?).

At least everyone agrees that Eleanor of Aquitaine popularised the name Eleanor. One of the wealthiest and most influential women of the Middle Ages, Eleanor was Duchess of Aquitaine in her own right, making her such an eligible bride that she was snapped up by both Louis VII and Henry II, so she became a queen of France, then of England. She was the mother of Richard the Lionheart and King John, and one of her daughters was named after her – Eleanor who became queen of Castile, and was a similarly powerful figure.

Eleanor of Aquitaine was clever, charming, sophisticated, and high-spirited, and contemporary sources all agree that she was very beautiful. She survived into her eighties, and outlived both husbands and most of her children. She was perhaps more woman than most medieval men could handle, and she was let go by her first husband, and imprisoned for years by her second.

The name Eleanor became common amongst both French and English royalty and nobility. King John named one of his daughters Eleanor after his mother, and French noblewoman Eleanor of Provence married Henry III, becoming the mother of Edward I. Edward married Eleanor of Castile, who was named after her great-grandmother, the daughter of Eleanor of Aquitaine. In turn, Edward I named his eldest daughter Eleanor, and her daughter was given the name Eleanor; Edward II also named a daughter Eleanor after Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Eleanor is a classic name which has never left the charts. It was #98 in the 1900s, and reached its lowest point in the 1960s at #454. It climbed steadily until the 1990s, after which it levelled off for many years, remaining stable in the 100s. Eleanor joined the Top 100 for the first time since the 1900s last year, climbing 31 places to reach #84, the second-highest rise in rank after Ariana. It is #82 in New South Wales, where it was one of the fastest-rising names for the year, #77 in Queensland, where it was one of the fastest-rising names, #54 in Tasmania, and #45 in the Australian Capital Territory.

Eleanor also joined the US Top 100 last year, and is #78 there. It was popular in the US from the end of the 19th century until World War II, and peaked in 1920 at #25. Long-serving First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt gave it a lot of publicity; her first name was Anna, but she went by her middle name. Eleanor was popular in the UK from the middle of the 19th century until the 1930s, and returned to the Top 100 in the 1980s. It peaked at #18 in 1999, and is currently #60 in England/Wales.

Up until this year, I would have said that Eleanor was a perfect, classic, underused choice. It was too perfect and classic to remain underused forever, as it has now become a Top 100 name. You can understand why, as it has both strength and elegance, a marvellous royal namesake, and the option of nicknames such as Elle, Ella, Ellie, Elea, Nell, Nellie, and Nora.

Spelling variants such as Elinor and Ellanore are not unusual; the name Elanor is from The Lord of the Rings and means “sun star” in the invented Sindarin language – in Tolkien’s universe, an elanor was a small yellow pimpernel-like flower, and the name was given to Sam Gamgee’s golden-haired daughter. In Australia, Eleanor is usually said EL-uh-nawr, similar to the American pronunciation, although you will sometimes hear a British pronunciation here, which is more like EL-en-uh.

POLL RESULTS
Eleanor received an outstanding approval rating of 91%, making it the highest-rated Famous Name for girls in 2015, and the highest-rated Famous Name overall. People saw the name Eleanor as elegant and refined (28%), dignified and intellectual (23%), and beautiful or attractive (17%). However 5% thought it was too popular. Only one person thought Eleanor seemed snobbish or elitist, and likewise just one was bothered by the number of spellings and pronunciations.

(Photo of the Blue Mountains near Varuna from Hook to Book by Christine Bell; Christine gives a wonderful insight into what life is like as a writer at Varuna).

You Asked About … The Weekly Birth Announcements

19 Sunday Oct 2014

Posted by A.O. in Your Questions Answered

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

Baby Name Pondering, Babynameobsessed, birth notices, Bonds Baby Search, British Baby Names, Clare's Name News, Facebook, For Real Baby Names, middle names, name combinations, sibsets, The Art of Naming, twin sets, Twitter, unisex names

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I’ve been publishing the Birth Announcements category every Friday for almost three years now, and by now I’ve received quite a few questions about them. Here’s the answers to them, plus the answers to questions you haven’t asked, but you might have wondered.

Why do you publish the Birth Announcements?
I read birth notices for my own interest every week, and have done so for several years. Like any collector, I felt like sharing my finds.

What benefits do you imagine other people would receive from reading the Birth Announcements?
Australia doesn’t have much name data past the Top 100, so it’s a way to show the variety of baby names being used by real people, right now. And there’s no data on middle names at all. People might also see names, or name combinations, they admire and consider using themselves. Or they might just be interested generally.

Where do you get the names from?
The bulk of them are from birth notices in newspapers – I read 22 different newspapers for the birth notices, many of them from regional areas. Brooke from Baby Name Pondering contributes names from the Herald Sun, so that’s 23 papers. I also scan hospital announcements – many newspapers publish photographs of babies born in their local hospital that week or month. There’s also baby competitions, such as Bonds Baby Search, stories about new babies in newspapers and magazines, parenting and photography blogs, and even a few babies that readers have seen in real life.

How do you choose the names – do you just pick your favourite names each week?
No, I definitely don’t just pick names that I really like; that would be very boring and repetitive (not to mention a fairly short list). I try to get a good variety of names, and although there’s no set way of choosing names, I generally look out for:

* unusual, rare, and unique names (especially ones that are new to me)
* daring and darling middle names
* popular names matched with eye-catching middles
* names I have featured on the blog (especially the more unusual ones, to show people do use them)
* interesting and appealing twin sets and multiples
* sibsets that seem well-matched, or strangely-matched
* intriguing sibling names (if a name seems ho-hum, check its brother or sister …)
* names from a diversity of cultures (even if that isn’t always obvious from the name)
* unisex names for both genders
* names that aren’t popular, but are on trend
* hip and fashionable names
* names that show up again and again, as a heads-up how well-used they are
* names that are particularly Australian, especially patriotic ones
* names that somehow seem very typical of their time and place
* name combinations that I think will be crowd-pleasers and appeal to other people
* potentially controversial names that I think will get a strong reaction from other people
* and yes – my own personal favourites!

How do you choose the headline names?
I generally look for two names which seem to go together in some way, usually that are in a similar style (like Odette and Raphaelle), or have a connecting theme (like Elvis and Memphis). Names which can easily be matched with a picture are favourites of mine, hence the amount of vocabulary names like Rose, River, Robin, and Rain.

How do you choose the profile pictures?
It’s varied over time. At the moment, I try to find a picture suggested by the headline names in some way, and if that isn’t possible, I might choose one related to the season (like a snowman for winter), or look for ones of children and young people that somehow remind me of the names. For example, last Friday the names were Brinley and Saige, who I could imagine as surfers.

Is it hard to find enough interesting names each week?
No, I usually have too many names, and have to hold some over for the following week. It can be hard to find an equal number of boy and girl names – some weeks it feels as if all the boys have really cool names, and all the girls are named Charlotte Anne and Emily Louise, and then the next week it will be the girls with exciting names, and the boys all called William Thomas and Lachlan James. But I figure that helps give a chance for the more “normal” names to shine.

Any other difficulties?
It can be hard to make sure the names that week aren’t too much alike. Girls names especially seem to be very similar to each other, so that I will have a Mae, a Maeve, a Maya, a Mia, and a Mila all in one week, not to mention six names with Grace as the middle name. In these cases, I will also hold names over for another week.

Are you getting bored with doing this?
Nope.

Shouldn’t you publish all the names you see in a week, instead of filtering them for us?
Hm, interesting suggestion. To me it seems as if 100+ names will just blend in with one another, but my final Birth Announcement for the year will have all the names from  that week, so you can see what it would look like.

Do you publish any of the names so that people can make fun of them?
Definitely not, and I’d be disappointed if people used them as an opportunity to be mean: these aren’t Hollywood celebrities; they’re basically our friends and neighbours. I deliberately don’t tend to choose names that are often targets of name bullying, such as common names with outrageous spellings (apart from anything else, I don’t find them interesting). Having said that, I can never resist a name or name combination which strikes me as comical; I love them.

I don’t remember publishing my child’s name on the Internet – where did you see it?
I don’t make a note of where I see every name, but I will do my best to track it down for you.

You spelled my child’s name incorrectly!
I am but human. Let me know, and I will edit the post.

I don’t want my child’s name published on your blog
Oh dear. Are you sure? It will make me very sad, but I can remove it.

Are you stalking me, or my children?
No, really I’m not. Look at all the newspapers and blogs I have to read – I don’t have time to stalk individual families for their names. I know it looks suspicious that half the kids from your mother’s group were in one set of announcements, or your daughter’s name was in a set of announcements with your kids’s school as the profile picture for it, or your first child’s name was published 18 months ago, and now I just published your second child’s name as well. It’s just that it’s a small world, and you go to a hip mother’s group, and you live in a small town with not many photo opportunities, and you have great taste so both your kids ended up on the blog. I promise these are all by chance, and not by design.

I saw a fantastic name in the Birth Announcements and used it for my baby!
Yay!

What happens if I see a name or a sibset that I think is the bee’s knees?
Leave a comment to that effect (either on the blog itself, Twitter or Facebook), and eventually they will get voted on so we can see which names everyone likes the most.

Aren’t the name polls just a popularity contest?
Like most things in life, yes. I wouldn’t take it too seriously – we’re not voting on the Nobel Prizes here.

Don’t you think there’s too many names to vote on for most of the polls?
Yes. Next year there will be a monthly poll, which hopefully will make them more manageable. In the beginning, I worried not enough people would nominate names, but due to Sarah’s example at For Real Baby Names, I’m now confident enough to nominate names myself if nobody else bothers.

I have developed an addiction to birth notices, and your weekly round up is no longer enough for me – I need more birth announcements!
Completely understandable. Ebony at Babynameobsessed publishes birth notices from Western Australia, then there’s Elea at British Baby Names, who has weekly birth notices from the UK, plus historical birth notices from The Times. Kara at The Art of Naming has birth notices, I think from her local area, and Clare’s Name News provides links to several European blogs that have birth notices from non-English speaking countries. Then of course there’s the motherlode – For Real Baby Names, where Sarah posts names from birth notices several times a week. Plenty of places to get your fix!

Boy’s Names are Giving Them a Headache! Can You Help This Couple Find a Pain-Free Boy’s Name?

23 Saturday Aug 2014

Posted by A.O. in Naming Assistance

≈ 10 Comments

Tags

British Baby Names, choosing baby names, classic names, middle names, nicknames, popular names, vintage names

 

hypnotherapy-for-headachesRachel and Nathan are expecting their first baby at the end of the year, and are having some difficulties deciding on a baby name. Rachel and Nathan like old-style and vintage names that aren’t too common, but not too strange or made up.

For a girl, they have pretty much decided on Lottie Grace. At first, Rachel was concerned with how it sounded with their surname, which is a long one ending in an -ee sound, such as DuHannitay. However, she feels happy with it now, and Nathan likes it as well. They chose Grace because it sounds nice with Lottie, but would be open to hearing other middle name suggestions.

Rachel’s first choice was Frankie, but Nathan didn’t like it, and then Rachel rather went off it as well. She also likes Audrey, Millie, Poppy, Elsie – but Lottie is definitely the front runner. Names that they like but can’t use for various reasons include Clara, Edie, Lucy, Hattie, and Maisie.

The real problem is boy’s names. Nathan doesn’t seem keen on many of Rachel’s suggestions, and Rachel is starting to feel that the harder she looks for names, the more confused she feels. These are the names they have discussed so far:

Albie: Rachel likes it, Nathan isn’t sure
Alfie: Nathan prefers this to Albie, but Rachel thinks it’s getting too popular, and dislikes the short form Alf
Arthur: Rachel likes it, but thinks it might be a bit much, and Nathan dislikes it; they don’t like short forms of the name such as Art or Artie
Clem: has been vetoed by Nathan
Jimmy: Nathan likes it, Rachel doesn’t mind it
Max: has been ruled out because it’s too common
Rex: it’s okay, but neither of them love it
George: Rachel has always really liked it, but feels it might be getting a bit too common

Names they like but can’t use include Charlie, Spencer, Louie, Lenny, and Vincent.

The middle name hasn’t been settled yet. They have a family name Bernie (Bernard) in mind, which could be used, but if it doesn’t fit with the name, would drop it for something else.

* * * * * * * * * *

I’m glad you’ve picked a girl’s name, and Lottie seems just your style. I think Grace is a nice middle name, and very fuss-free. The only other short name that occurred to me is Lou – just because Lottie Lou is so adorable. I also think Lottie Amelia and Lottie Matilda make nice combinations. Middle names I’ve seen for Lottie in real life are: Lottie Violet, Lottie Estelle, Lottie Alice, Lottie Scarlett, Lottie Elizabeth, Lottie Margaret, Lottie Harriet, Lottie Olive, and Lottie Lux.

For boy’s names, I can see why you’re having problems. First, you haven’t agreed on many names, and even the agreements have been a bit half-hearted. That might be a sign you have to compromise. Sometimes you get to pick a name that you both love, and sometimes just one of of you likes the name, and the other one can live with it. Or maybe both of you are just okay with the name, and that might work too – you can learn to love a name as your son grows into it.

There’s something I notice with people who say they “can’t think of any names”, or “don’t really like any names”. What they tend to have in common is a lot of rules restricting their choices, so that the pool of baby names to consider is more of a teaspoon.

I always give a little inward sigh when someone tells me that what they want is an unpretentious traditional name that isn’t weird or unusual, but not common at all. In fact, it can’t even become common in the future. In other words, they want a nice normal name that’s exactly like everyone else’s baby name, but they don’t want anyone else to have actually chosen the name for their child, or to do so at a later date.

That’s a tall order. And once they find the four or five names that might fit this paradoxical profile, what are the odds that they even like those names, let alone love them?

Looking at some of your comments on the boy’s names you’ve discussed, I see that Alfie, which is around the #200 mark, is already “too popular” for you, while classic and gently rising Arthur might be slightly over the top. The name that you really like, George, is too common, and Rex, which fits every single one of your requirements, just gets a “meh”.

I confess to being stumped, and I’m not surprised that you’re stumped as well. I  think something has to give – either you start liking names that are a bit more unusual, or you accept that the names you like are gaining in popularity. It’s very hard to force yourself to be attracted to names that aren’t your style, and it would be much easier to come to terms with name popularity, and maybe even discover it’s not such a spooky bogeyman after all.

Let’s have a look at those names which you might actually use, and see if some of their problems aren’t so bad.

Albie or Alfie
You both seem to like the similar sounds of these two names, with Rachel suggesting Albie, and Nathan preferring Alfie. I’m not sure either of you have convinced the other, although I really don’t think Alfie is too common – I wonder if the idea of someone nicknaming him Alf is the real problem?

Albie made me think of Paddy, Rory and Finley, while cheeky Alfie reminded me of a list Elea has at British Baby Names called Lively Lads. I wonder if any of these names might appeal, such as Freddie or Ollie?

Jimmy
This seems like a genuine possibility, with Nathan liking it and Rachel okay with it. It does seem like a boyish version of Lottie, as both are pet forms of very popular names (James and Charlotte). It fits all of your requirements, and is a real charmer of a name. Other names that seem similar are Johnny, Billy, Sonny, Gus, and Ted.

Rex
Poor old Rex – it’s everything you’ve asked for, yet neither of you are that keen on it. That suggests that your feelings for a name are much more important than how many boxes it ticks. Names that remind me of Rex are Roy, Stanley, Victor, Leon, Lawrence, and Theodore.

George
And then there’s George, which Rachel has always liked. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to give your son a name that you’ve always had warm feelings for? And if you’re worried about it becoming too common, here’s something to consider. It already is common. Which sounds like a bad thing, except that here’s something else to consider. It’s always been common. George has never been out of the Top 100, making it one of those sturdy, reliable classics where you don’t have to worry about them becoming popular, because there’s never been a time they weren’t popular. Doesn’t that give you a feeling of security? And it hasn’t been higher than #50 since the 1980s, so it’s popular, but not too popular. Isn’t that a comforting thought?

I think your worries about popularity have made it so hard to think of names that it’s worth starting from scratch, and this time don’t think about how popular a name is at all, or how much more frequently you’ve seen it lately.

I’d like to see the two of you each write down ten boys’ names you really like – names that you can imagine giving your son, names that fit well into your family, names that feel right. Then compare lists, and see if there are any names you’ve both chosen. If so, that’s a great starting point. If not, perhaps there are points of such similarity that you can reach a compromise together.

You’ve got a fair way to go before your due date, so you have time to write in for another blog consultation if you would like one. And take heart – you’ve already chosen a fantastic girl’s name that you both like, and which fits all your needs, so there’s no reason you can’t be just as successful choosing a boy’s name.

UPDATE: Unfortunately Rachel never got back to me, and when I tried to contact her, her email had been disabled.

POLL RESULT: The public’s choice for a boy’s name was George with 35% of the vote, and Alfie was not too far behind on 30%.

Interview with Kelli from NameFreak!

27 Sunday Apr 2014

Posted by A.O. in Blog Reviews

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

baby name blogs, Biblical names, British Baby Names, choosing baby names, classic names, Facebook, fictional namesakes, guilty pleasure names, Instagram, Kelli Brady, name combinations, NameFreak!, Pinterest, popular names, sibsets, Twilight names, Twitter, UK birth notices, US name popularity

namefreak

Kelli Brady is the analytical blogger at NameFreak!, which is a true name nerd’s blog – and of course I mean that in the most complimentary sense possible! There is tons of analysis of American name trends on the blog; I can tell Kelli loves sleuthing through the US data, and is a dedicated list-maker. Kelli has had several name polls on her blog, and for the past couple of years has run Name Madness play offs, where she chooses a wide variety of names on a particular theme, and gets the public to choose their favourite by vote. If you are fascinated by names, but also like to have fun with them, you will love NameFreak!

What is your name?

Kelli Joyce Brady (Brady is a pen name).

How did you become interested in names?

It started when I was maybe seven or eight years old. I remember being obsessed with the names of my friends and my Cabbage Patch Kids, as well as constantly making name lists. The name Samantha was a favourite of mine when I was young because I thought Samantha Joyce (Sammy Jo) would make an awesome name for my future daughter. It’s so fun to know that while her first name changed many times over the years, my daughter’s middle name was never under debate.

What inspired you to begin a name blog?

I started NameFreak! back in 2008 when I was pregnant with my son. I wanted a way to express my passion for names without the limitations of short Facebook status messages. I really only shared the blog with my immediate friends, so it stayed small, and once my son was born, the blog unfortunately fell by the wayside. After I moved to Thailand in 2012, I found myself with a lot of free time. The calling to blog again hit me strongly and I’m so glad it did! I discovered the name blogging community and am now able to share my name passion with a lot more readers!

Do you have a favourite post on NameFreak!?

I love to combine my passions. Being a baseball fan, I love my baseball-inspired name posts. Another passion of mine is Jane Austen, and so the analyses of her novels’ heroes and heroines names are also a favourite. Most of my posts require quite a bit of research, which is another love of mine. My favourite research-oriented post is the study I did on the names of Little Women.

Are there are any other ways to follow you online? 

Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest. I do not post on Instagram very often, but I love that the naming community has joined the picture universe. I see so much potential there.

What are some of your favourite names?

I love the classics and am so excited when I hear of a baby Edith or George. I drool over the baby name announcements from Britain. I love biblical names as well. I think it’s safe to I say have favourites in almost every category.

What names do you dislike?

I’m not a huge fan of alternative spellings. There are exceptions however … I mean, my name is Kelli and I think it fits me a lot better than Kelly.

Are there any names you love, but could never use?

My guilty pleasure names come from my love of books/movies/baseball. Eowyn is one of my all time favourites. I also love Esme, but would probably avoid it due to the Twilight craze. And how cute would a little girl named Austen be? For boys, I am smitten with Catcher and Brooks.

What are your favourite names in the US Top 100?

Girls: Anna (#35) and Molly (#90)

Boys: Sebastian (#64) and Oliver (#73)

What are your favourite names in the rest of the US Top 1000?

Girls: Paige (#105) and Jane (#340)

Boys: Simon (#255) and Asa (#562)

What are your favourite names that have never charted in the US?

Tamsin (never charted), Elinor (hasn’t charted since 1953), and Linus (hasn’t charted since 1940).

What are your children’s names?

Rachel Joyce and Simon Brent. I explain how we chose their names here.

If you found out you were pregnant right now, what names might you be considering?

I would fight for Tamsin, but would probably lose. I have brought up Jane early on with both of my pregnancies, but have been shot down by my husband each time. Other names would be Josephine, Paige and Anna for girls, and Linus, Asa, James, and Oliver for boys.

What is something we don’t know about you? 

I have not been able to blog as much lately because I am working on a book! It’s basically my biggest research project ever and taking a lot of time to finish, but I hope to have it out as an e-book this summer. Here is something not name-related as well … After growing up without a desire to ever leave the United States, my current count of countries visited is 26. I’ve definitely caught the travel bug!

What advice would you give someone who was choosing a baby name? 

My naming philosophy is simple. Go with what you love, no matter what other people think. Your child will “make” the name. But there definitely needs to be some regard on the part of the parent. Consider this … after the gift of life, your child’s name is the first gift you give them, and one that they carry forever. What a huge, but fun, responsibility! Embrace it!

MYTH: A “Weird” Baby Name Can Ruin Your Child’s Life

18 Sunday Nov 2012

Posted by A.O. in Baby Name Mythbusters

≈ 19 Comments

Tags

African names, alphanumeric names, British Baby Names, celebrity baby names, created names, Dr Martin Ford, Herald Sun, Indian names, Irish names, name image, name popularity, name studies, parenting blogs, popular names, psychology of names, Radio National, rare names, US birth notices, US name data, variant spellings, Vietnamese names, Who's Who, William Shakespeare, Yiddish names

This is an idea you cannot help running across if you frequent baby name forums, attend a few parent group meetings, or just read the papers – that the bestowing of a name considered strange or highly unusual upon a child is a cruel thing to do, and has the potential to impact on their life in negative ways.

A short-lived parenting blog at the Herald Sun which was written by Cheryl Critchley asked, Are Weird Names Child Abuse? It might seem a bit extreme to suggest that calling your son Raiyybanzi is the equivalent of hitting him around the head or locking him in his room for three weeks without food, but Cheryl goes to the child psychologists for further information.

According to child psychologist Dr Michael Carr-Gregg, yes, an unusual name is a form of child abuse, as it will lead to non-stop teasing in the schoolyard. Another psychologist, Dr Janet Hall, said a poor choice of name could lead to the child developing self-esteem problems. A name that others constantly question and mock is a “constant attack on your self-esteem”. It’s all sounding pretty dire for poor little Raiyybanzi.

A dim ray of light shone through when an education psychologist named Dr Helen McGrath suggested that while shy children probably won’t appreciate an unusual name, an extroverted one might enjoy the attention that it brings. She noted that unusual names do tend to change people’s perceptions, and even self-perception. However, there was no research which suggested any negative impact, and that factors such as social skills and family relationships were far more important.

The interesting thing is that Cheryl got her inspiration for the article from the names of AFL footballers she had seen in the newspapers – names such as Ayce, Jarryn, Jarrhan, Cheynee and Sharrod. These horrified her, and yet it would seem that Ayce and friends hadn’t had their lives ruined, but embarked on potentially lucrative and rewarding sporting careers. The photo of Ayce used for the article showed him looking cheerful and confident, with his self-esteem firmly intact.

This article was published a few years ago, but journalistic opinion doesn’t seem to have moved forward very much in the meantime. There’s a good reason for that – if you’ve been following the ‘Twas Ever Thus series at Elea’s blog, British Baby Names, you will see that when it comes to getting worked up over “weird” baby names, the media is pretty much churning out the same stuff they produced in the 19th century. Only the names have been changed, as the saying goes.

On Radio National a few months ago, on their popular Life Matters show, presenter Natasha Mitchell had a programme called You’ve Named Your Baby What?!. Generally light-hearted in tone, the show discussed unusual celebrity baby names (Natasha confessed she rather liked Sparrow), old-fashioned names like Mavis and Alfie, little boys just called H, and little girls named Rach’elle.

Guest Mia Freedman, who runs the successful parenting website Mamamia, while not actually accusing anyone of child abuse, opined that a strange name, especially one spelled strangely, could be a “burden” for a child. A burden in so much as they would be constantly questioned about their name – perhaps not damaging to their self-esteem, but a downright nuisance to them nonetheless.

In these sort of shows/articles, everyone is very careful to explain that when they say “unusual names”, they don’t mean names from other cultures, which to our ears may be difficult to pronounce, or sound like rude words, or appear to be on the “wrong” sex. No, these names are a wonderful sign of our diversity, and people should be proud to possess them as part of their culture, and it would be very wrong indeed to poke fun of them.

To my mind, this is the downfall of their argument, because it’s never explained why it’s not a “burden” to be named Caoilfhionn, even though that must surely involve at least as many requests to explain spelling and pronunciation as Rach’elle does. If it’s not such a terrible burden to be named Caoilfhionn, then I don’t see how Rach’elle is any heavier for a child to bear.

And if we as a society should be able to cope with Caoilfhionn, Purushottama, Oluwakanyinsola, Dudel and Phuc as names, then I don’t see why we cannot also cope with Mavis, Alfie, Sparrow, Ayce, Jarryn, Rach’elle and H. For that matter, how could anyone be confused by the spelling of the name H? Surely the strange-names-as-a-burden club should be heaping praise on H for its unburdensome simplicity? However, for some reason that never happens.

Oddly enough, Mia, who has an extremely simple and popular name, says that she needs to often correct people on the spelling and pronunciation of it. And yet, this burden doesn’t seem to have really been much bother, or held her back in life. From this I deduce that almost everyone has to explain their name at some point (“No, it’s John – J-O-H-N, not Jon – J-O-N”), and that it’s just one of those little things you have to deal with.

To befuddle the argument even further, Mia poked mild fun at “cutesy pet names” for children, singling out Jools Oliver for naming her children Poppy, Daisy, Petal and Buddy. Fun fact: Mia’s daughter is named Coco. I know: go figure.

Although these examples are not the most convincing you’ll come across, and don’t even manage to present a cogent argument, there are no lack of studies which purport to reveal the dreadful consequences of giving your child a strange name.

They tell us that your child will do worse at school, be less popular with their classmates, drop out of tertiary education, and have their resumes ignored by prospective employers (although, after doing so badly at school and flunking university, you’d think a boss would have pretty good grounds for ignoring their resume).

Furthermore, they were more likely to be diagnosed as psychotic and to end up in prison – the bitter conclusion to a life of failure and misery. After reading this terribly sad story, which seems like the stuff of nightmare and soap opera, how could a parent be so heartless as to inflict on their child any name other than one selected by the Chamber of Commerce, heads of all major universities, and a panel of psychiatrists?

However, other researchers crunched the numbers and came up with opposing results. It was noted that men with rare names were over-represented in Who’s Who, suggesting that a life of success was just as possible as one of failure for those with less common names. Other researchers noted that many children with uncommon names came from lower socio-economic backgrounds, and that once this was allowed for, there was no difference in academic outcomes that could be attributed to the person’s name.

One interesting finding by development psychologist Dr. Martin Ford is that everyone tends to attach a particular image or set of expectations to a name – up and until they confronted with a person with that name. People might say that they think of Berthas as being unattractive, but if shown the photo of a beautiful woman and told she is named Bertha, they rate the photo more or less the same as someone told the lovely woman is called Jacqueline or Christine.

In other words, Shakespeare was clearly on the money in regard to roses smelling just as sweet.

So here we have two competing theories: one is that unusual names are little more than child abuse, will damage self-esteem, prove an unnecessary burden, and be a severe handicap in regards to academic and social success. At worst, they may even send your child mad, or force them into a life of crime.

The other is that names, once attached to a real person, become almost meaningless – that what we are judged on is not our names, but our appearance, voice, grooming, hygiene, mannerisms, personality, social skills, motivations, abilities, intelligence, beliefs, income, education, job, family, friends, hobbies, home, influences, aspirations, and indeed the whole “package” that is ourselves.

I’m not sure I am completely convinced by either side – mostly because I am sceptical as to whether any of them have considered genuinely “weird” names. I feel as if they have looked at unpopular or uncommon names, or names judged to be undesirable by others, but that’s not really the same thing.

I mean come on, how sheltered must your life be to think that Ayce and Rach’elle are weird!

From what can I gather, Dr. Ford’s photo experiment was just using “outdated” names of the time like Hazel and Harriet – not only in no way weird, but by now very much back in fashion.

His original name study was done in 1984, on children who would have been born in the early 1970s. Very rare names of people born in 1972 include Atticus, Briar, Bristol, Coco, Darcey, Denzel, Emmeline, Fallon, Heaven, Jaxon, Jorja, Kourtney, Larkin, Lourdes, Marigold, Reeve, Rosamond, Sonnet, Star, Theodoric, and Wilder.

These names aren’t weird any more – some of them look pretty hip, and others seem unsurprising; a couple are even quite dull. In just forty years, a name can go from Woah, what the heck? to Meh. Maybe the rare names of today, such as Cameo and Twain, will seem equally familiar by the early 2050s.

That’s looking at US data of course, but in Australia we know that just twenty years ago Olive was a strange and awkward name to give a baby, and it is now Top 100 in Victoria, and getting there in New South Wales.

If name-weirdness is dependent on time, it is equally so on space. I know that when I look at some names on the American charts, or in American birth notices, they seem odd to me because names such as Legend, Princess, Race, Tinsley,  and Dutch are rarely or never used in Australia. Likewise, Americans look at Australian-used names like Lachlan, Jacinta, Hamish, Bronte and Zali, and think What the dealio?

A normal name can become weird just by crossing the Pacific; conversely, an American boy named Hamish who moves to Australia will blend in instantly. Fun fact: in the US, 8 baby boys were named Hamish last year.

What an individual person believes is weird seems to be almost entirely subjective. To Cheryl it’s Jarryn. To Natasha it’s Apple. To me it’s Race. To 1972 it’s Coco. To a commenter I saw on Mamamia it’s Felix (in the Top 100). To this journalist it’s Becket. To my mother it’s Madison. To you maybe it’s Hamish. Or Metallica. Or Banjo. Or Justus. Or Crew. Or Dudel.

I genuinely thought that this myth would be either BUSTED or CONFIRMED by the time I finished the blog entry, but not only has it not been answered, the very myth itself seems to be retreating over the horizon the closer we get to it, like heat shimmering on a bitumen road in January.

I am becoming less and less convinced that a weird name will ruin anyone’s life, and moreover, I am becoming less and less certain that weird names even exist, in any useful sense of the word “weird”.

Even Raiyybanzi isn’t that strange once you get used to it – it’s really just a juiced-up Raymond.

MYTH: Australian Baby Names Follow English Trends More Closely Than American Ones

09 Sunday Sep 2012

Posted by A.O. in Baby Name Mythbusters

≈ 7 Comments

Tags

Arabic names, British Baby Names, Gone With The Wind, Greek names, international name trends, Italian names, Legitimate Baby Names, name data, name poopularity, name trends, popular names, Southern names, UK name trends, US name trends, Welsh names

Last time we went mythbusting, we looked at whether Australian names are becoming increasingly Americanised, and didn’t find a lot of evidence. This is the flip side to that myth – the one that comforts us that we are essentially more British in our ways than American, and so are our baby names. That despite an increasing tendency to call our children Jett and Harlow, most of us will trustingly follow dear old Mother England, and choose something like Archie, Evie, Callum or Isla.

Again, this myth sounded quite plausible to me. But we have to look and make sure, so once more I prepared myself to examine the Top 100 from each nation. The first hurdle is that both of us are slightly data-challenged, so I was forced to rely on data from Victoria only (the only state with stats going back to 1929), while the data from the UK would include both England and Wales, but not Scotland or Northern Ireland. I did feel that already the waters were getting slightly muddied, only to find that England/Wales doesn’t publicise historical Top 100s.

I express my heartfelt gratitude to Elea at British Baby Names, who has provided on her blog, through her own labours, Top 100s for England/Wales for each decade from 1904 to 1984. Upon e-mailing her to enquire where I might find the one for 1994, she very kindly sent me a copy of her own personal spreadsheets so I could have that one as well.

Now I acknowledge this leaves me with some flaws in my methodology before even starting. I only had data from one state of Australia; furthermore this state has a reputation of being slightly more “English” than average. I only had data from England/Wales, and only had access to years ending in a 4. As I had already examined the earlier myth using data from the United States in years ending with a 0, it was possible I wasn’t going to be comparing apples to oranges so much as bananas to hedgehogs to timeshare villas in Spain.

However, we won’t get too gloomy, but show a bit of British pluck and press on. No, this won’t be the most statistically persuasive thing you’ll read all year, but we’re not doing a study, not trying to prove anything, just having a keen yet amateurish look around us to see if anything obvious shows up. And after all, if the myth is clearly and inarguably true, then broad trends should be pretty obvious even through a fog of slightly dodgy data.

1934

Boys – 82% the same (17% higher than US)

Girls – 69% the same (18% higher than US)

1954

Boys – 75% the same (16% higher than US) – down 7% overall, down 1% relative to US

Girls – 68% the same (21% higher than US) – down 1% overall, up 3% relative to US

1974

Boys – 72% the same (16% higher than US) – down 3% overall, no change relative to US

Girls – 62% the same (11% higher than US) – down 6% overall, down 10% relative to US

1994

Boys – 67% the same (11% higher than US) – down 10% overall, down 3% relative to US

Girls – 61% the same (5% higher than US) – down 1% overall, down 6% relative to US

2011

Boys – 63% the same (4% higher than US) – down 4% overall, down 7% relative to US

Girls – 63% the same (16% higher than US) – up 2% overall, up 11% relative to US

Based on these numbers, I would say that’s a MYTH CONFIRMED – at no time in history did the the amount of popular names shared with the US overtake the amount of popular names shared with England/Wales.

However, you can clearly see that while the number of shared girls names went down only very slightly between 1934 and 2011, the number of shared boys names sunk by almost 20%. In fact, yes, we still share more boys names with England/Wales than with the United States, but only by 4% – four names! Statistically, that’s what I call a big-whooping-deal difference, and if this trend continues, future Australian boy’s names are going to look much more like those in the US than the Top 100 for England/Wales.

Girl’s name did not show this steady decline, and in fact last year had a slight increase since the 1990s, while also showing a significant gain relative to the US data. This makes me think that when we say that our names are more English than American, we are primarily thinking of our names for girls.

GENTLE MUSINGS

Last time I ended the article with “conclusions”; this now seems far too definite and perhaps arrogant considering that we are left with far more questions than answers. So I will not reach any conclusions, but merely gently muse on some of the issues that have been raised.

Questions

  • Many names are shared by the Top 100s of all three countries. Therefore, can you really label names such as Olivia, Jacob, Ella and Liam as “English” or “American”, or are they more properly “international trends”?
  • If determined to designate a name as “English” or “American”, do you rely upon the place which provided the cultural impetus for the name, or the place where it became popular first, or the place where it reached the highest levels of popularity? If the first, then many popular names could be classed as American; if the second or third, a large number would be classed as Australian more than anything else.
  • I used the example of Scarlett as an “American-style” name in the preceding article (I admit without much forethought), and Sebastiane from Legitimate Baby Names quite correctly pointed out that Scarlett was more popular in England than in the United States. Now, it cannot be disputed that Scarlett hails from the United States, because the name became known through Margaret Mitchell’s novel, Gone with the Wind, and was popularised by American actress, Scarlett Johansson. However, the name is #19 in Victoria, #25 in England/Wales, and #80 in the USA. It reached the Top 100 of both Victoria and England/Wales in the same year, 2004, New South Wales in 2005, but only became Top 100 in the USA last year. So which country, if any, claims it?
  • Sometimes my blog entries end up being copied and discussed in some odd places, so my Referrer stats tell me; occasionally they end up somewhere rather disturbing. I found the Mythbuster on Australian and US trends on a not-very-nice forum (not baby name or parenting related), where the poster claimed that supposedly “trashy” American names that were popular in Australia but not the USA (eg Beau) were in fact, not American, but “Southern” names. Did the Civil War not end? I wondered. Is the lower portion of America not part of the United States, but a separate nation? It does raise the issue, what qualifies as an “American” name? Must it be in the Top 100 of every state in the USA to be called American? In which case, I have a feeling that “American” names would end up being those that are popular internationally, like Michael and Emily.

Observations

  • Immigration made a difference between the Top 100s of England/Wales and Victoria. Mohammed and Abdul have been popular names since the 1930s in the UK, while post-war immigration saw names such as Antonio and Ioannis reach the Top 100 in Victoria during the 1970s.
  • Although Australia has a history of being very keen on Welsh-inspired names such as Mervyn and Gweneth, I was amused to notice that not only were these not popular in England/Wales, but they had Welsh names, presumably used by actual Welsh people, which we didn’t, such as Ivor and Glynis.
  • While we all are influenced by each other’s name trends, each country had its names that the others were seemingly oblivious to. The name Gillian seems to be a quintessentially English name, appearing decade after decade on their Top 100, whilst never making the Top 100 in Australia, or the Top 1000 of the US. Meanwhile the US had quite a thing for Melvin – a name which still ranks on their Top 1000. In turn, we had a long-standing fascination with the name Bronwyn.
  • Each country also had their own favourite names. Adrian was a name we took to early – it was Top 100 by the 1930s and stayed there until quite recently. In England/Wales, it took a bit longer to reach the Top 100 and they tired of it sooner. In the US, Adrian only reached the Top 100 in 1989. England/Wales had an inordinate passion for the name Derek, which continued for decades – a name that has never been Top 100 in Australia, and only reached the Top 100 of the USA in 1970, a good half-century after England/Wales. In the US, Douglas seemed to enjoy favour much longer than elsewhere, being still Top 100 as late as the 1980s.
  • In other words, we might all be influenced by international trends, but we also have our own tastes in names, and don’t necessarily abandon a favoured name just because everyone else is doing so.
  • I have noticed that some people, amongst them many Australians I’m sorry to say, assume that a name which becomes popular in England/Wales is somehow more “classy” or “stylish” that one whose popularity originated in the United States or Australia. Granted, whether a name is stylish or not is completely subjective, but I did not feel that this assumption stood up to even casual investigation. From my perusal of popular names from three places across seven decades, it seemed to me that all were capable of being inspired by names that have been considered stylish, and its opposite.
  • For example, the name Isabella became popular in Australia much earlier than elsewhere, and I think most people would say Isabella is a pretty, stylish name. Yet we were also the first (by many years) to jump aboard the Hayden/Aidan/Jayden/Brayden craze. While I don’t consider this the black hole of name taste that others do, I acknowledge it’s not generally thought of as a stylish trend. While England has some lovely aristocratic names on its Top 100s, such as Constance and Daphne, can a land which adored the name Derek really take the title of Stylemeister? America has brought us no end of cool names, from glamourpuss Marilyn to zippy Jett. There’s a freshness and vigour to American name trends which I love, and a world without their names would be a far less interesting one. However, sometimes they’re a trifle overenthusiastic – and besides, Derek was on their Top 100 for 15 years, so they forfeit the style crown too.
  • Oh, and Barry and Sheila? Barry was Top 100 in England/Wales for longer than it was here, and Sheila, although popular in both England/Wales and the United States, didn’t show up in the Australian data, because by the 1930s it had already peaked and dropped off our Top 100. Who’d have thunk it?

Famous Names: Ned Kelly

29 Wednesday Aug 2012

Posted by A.O. in Famous Names

≈ 12 Comments

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On August 2 this year, it was reported that the descendants of notorious bushranger Edward “Ned” Kelly were about to receive his remains, 132 years after he was hanged for murder. At that time, the bodies of executed prisoners were buried in unmarked graves in Melbourne Gaol, and Kelly was one of them. In 1929, he and several others were re-buried in Pentridge Prison during renovations to Melbourne Gaol, and last year scientists were able to identify Ned Kelly’s skeleton from a group of twenty-four at Pentridge, by comparing his DNA to that of living members of the Kelly family. The Kellys can now give Ned a private burial.

Ned Kelly was the son of an Irish convict, and gained notoriety as a horse thief and cattle rustler before being convicted of bank robbing and murder. He was hanged on November 11 1880. He looms large in the Australian imagination, and is widely seen as a folk hero, and a symbol of Irish-Australian resistance against the ruling classes and police corruption. There is in the Ned Kelly legend a particular type of Australian masculinity which is admired: physically powerful, ballsy, defiant, daring, anti-authority, and an under-dog. The phrase, As game as Ned Kelly, is the ultimate praise for bravery, and his legend has spawned countless folk stories and ballads – not to mention a few films.

The name Ned is a pet form of names starting with Ed-, such as Edward and Edmund. It has been used as a nickname since at least the 14th century, and as an independent name since the 17th century. One theory is that it began life as a contraction of the affectionate “mine Ed“, which became understood as “my Ned”. Although this can’t be verified (and Elea at British Baby Names remains slightly sceptical), the story does add a layer of sweetness to the name.

It is among the first names that crossed the pond, because a baby named Ned was born in the English colony of Virginia, so it became a British and American name almost simultaneously. It has often appeared in American popular culture, such as Ned Flanders on The Simpsons and Ned Dorsey from 1990s sit-com Ned and Stacey. All-American girl detective Nancy Drew even had a boyfriend named Ned Nickerson. (Ned and Nancy! Adorable!). Ned was on the US Top 1000 until the mid-1970s.

Like Kevin in England and Bevan in Australia, it’s a name with a bad rep elsewhere, because in Scotland ned is slang for a hooligan or petty criminal. Given our own history with the name, this seems unlikely to put Australian parents off. Here solid unpretentious Ned will always be associated with folk hero Ned Kelly, but as it’s currently fashionable as an upper-class name in England, this makes it seem quite chic as well.

Kelly is an Anglicisation of the Irish surname Ó Ceallaigh, meaning “son of Ceallach”. Ceallach is often interpreted as meaning “bright headed”, but it may mean “church-going”, as the Irish word for church is ceall. It can also be seen as an Anglicisation of Ó Cadhla, meaning “son of Cadhla”, with the male name Cadhla meaning “attractive, graceful”.

Outside Ireland, the surname Kelly can be from place names in Scotland (in this case, probably from the Anglo-Saxon meaning “calf hill”) and in Devon, the latter derived from the Cornish word for “grove”. However, it is much more common as an Irish surname.

Kelly has been used as a first name since at least the late 17th century, and is another name which seems to have been used in Britain and America almost at the same time. It appears to have quickly become far more common in America as an Irish heritage name.

Although the name was first given to boys, in a relatively brief space of time the name seems to have been accepted as unisex, with roughly even numbers of males and females named Kelly in colonial America. Quite a few of the early American Kellys arrived directly from Ireland itself, and these were just as likely to be female, if not more so.

I don’t know why, but the name seems to have been commonly given to the sons and daughters of Christianised black African indentured servants in early colonial America. I would be fascinated to know the reason for this, and wonder if there is an African name Keli that seemed familiar to both cultures. Or perhaps working alongside Irish indentured servants gave them a fondness for the name.

Kelly first shows up on the US Top 1000 in 1880 as a male name, and first appears there for females in 1944. It grew in popularity for both sexes, but really took off as a girl’s name in the 1950s with the fame of glamorous Hollywood actress Grace Kelly (of Irish background). After she became Princess Grace of Monaco, the name simply bounded up the popularity charts.

Kelly peaked for both boys and girls in the late 1960s, but then lost ground as a boy’s name, while maintaining a female presence; it even managed to peak again for girls in the 1970s. Kelly hasn’t ranked as a boy’s name in the US for ten years, while it is now #335 for girls, and falling.

In Australia, the history of the name is much shorter, and it only ever charted for girls. It first appears in the charts in the 1950s at #560 (about one Kelly per year). By the following decade, it was already in the Top 100, and peaked in the 1970s at #13. It left the Top 100 in the early 2000s, and last year just ten baby girls named Kelly were born in New South Wales, giving it a ranking of #641.

Amongst the most common Google searches used to reach my blog are those enquiring about using Kelly as a boy’s name, and many of these are from Australia. With Kelly becoming rare as a name for girls, and the fame of American world surfing champion Kelly Slater (of Irish background) lifting its profile internationally as a male name, this seems the perfect time for Kelly to step up and gain more use for boys in Australia.

I hope that these assiduous Googlers are giving serious thought to choosing Kelly as their son’s name. I scan the birth notices for Kelly, and this year I have only seen it used as a middle name for boys. However, Kelly Slater himself uses his middle name (his first name is Robert), so these babies do have the choice to go by the name Kelly when they get older.

NOTE: Although you are free to call your child Ned, or Kelly, it is, bizarrely, forbidden in New South Wales to name a baby Ned Kelly. This makes Ned Kelly one of Australia’s rare illegal names.

(The picture is from Sidney Nolan’s series of paintings of Ned Kelly in his armour 1946-47. These images are some of the most iconic and recognisable of Australian artworks. Taken from ABC News).

Melbourne Suburbs That Could Be Used as Boy’s Names

15 Sunday Jul 2012

Posted by A.O. in Name Themes and Lists

≈ 1 Comment

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Ancient Celtic names, Anglo-Saxon names, Appellation Mountain, Australian Aboriginal names, birth announcements, birth records, British Baby Names, celebrity baby names, Celtic names, english names, fictional namesakes, Gaelic names, Gypsy names, Harry Potter names, Irish names, K.M. Sheard, locational names, mythological names, name history, name meaning, nicknames, Norman names, Norse names, Old English names, popular culture, Scottish names, sibsets, surname names, unisex names, Upswing Baby Names, Victorian name trends, virtue names, vocabulary names

Albion

Albion is right next to the suburb of Sunshine, and was developed by H.V. McKay as part of his Sunshine Estate. His own house was in Albion, showing that he was not too proud to live alongside his workers. Albion is the oldest known name for the island of Great Britain. The meaning, which comes from Ancient Celtic, may either mean “white”, perhaps referring to the white cliffs of the southern shores, or “hill”. According to K.M. Sheard, it should be interpreted as “white upper world”, to distinguish it from the dark Underworld (and thus similar to the Midgard of Norse mythology, which became the Middle Earth of Tolkien’s fantasy world). It’s related to a Welsh word which simply means “earth, world”. The Ancient Greeks and Romans knew of Albion, and even in their time, it was considered a name of great antiquity. Today Albion is often used as a poetic term for Britain, such as in our national anthem – “when gallant Cook from Albion sail’d”. In British mythology, Albion was a giant who ruled Britain and gave his name to the island. It’s an imposing heritage choice, very suitable for a baby born in a Jubilee year.

Baxter

Baxter is a rural locality on the Mornington Peninsula, and received its name because it was founded by pastoralist Benjamin Baxter, who came here as a member of the 50th Regiment. The property he owned, and the cottage he and his wife Martha lived in, are both still in existence today. The township developed in the late 19th century once the railway arrived. Baxter is an occupational surname from the English word bakester, originally referring to a female baker, as opposed to the male baker, but very soon accepted as meaning both men and women, and then as masculine only. The surname is most common in Scotland, and the northern counties of England, especially Yorkshire. There are several famous Australians with the surname Baxter, including the explorer John Baxter, who was killed on the expedition across the Nullarbor Plain. With its fashionable X and nickname Bax fitting in with Max and Jax, this now seems a pretty cool option as a boy’s name. This was chosen as a celebrity baby name last year by radio host Kate Dimond.

Brighton

Brighton is a beachside suburb named after the English seaside town. Brighton is from the Old English, meaning “Beorhthelm’s farmstead” (Beorhthelm is a man’s name meaning “bright helmet”). The suburb was bought by an Englishman named Henry Dendy in 1840, who got it for 1 pound an acre, sight unseen. He chose the name Brighton, hoping this would also become a fashionable seaside resort. Unfortunately, there was a depression at the time and Dendy was forced to sell the land to his agent. Dendy died a pauper, but his dream did come true, because very soon Brighton began attracting wealthy residents, and it remains a very exclusive address, full of luxury mansions. One of its most notable sights is the 82 colourful bathing boxes, which have been on Dendy Street Beach since the 19th century. These can only be owned by rate-paying residents, and will set you back at least a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Brighton is the home of many of the rich and famous, including former athlete Catherine Freeman. I’ve been seeing this bright, right-on name quite a bit lately in birth announcements for boys, and the suburb does give it a swanky air.

Elwood

Elwood did not have the most glamorous beginning. A piece of swampland, the first settlers came here because of fever. It was Victoria’s first quarantine station, and the area’s first cemetery. Elwood became a working class suburb with such lovely features as an abattoir, a very smelly canal, and, before sewage, a dumping ground for human waste. However, today the Art Deco houses, pleasant beach, leafy streets, and busy cafe strip make it a very upmarket suburb. It’s thought to have been named after the Quaker poet Thomas Ellwood, because Governor La Trobe, who named it, had a thing for Quakers. The surname can be after Ellwood in Gloucestershire, which means “elder wood”, or derived from the Anglo-Saxon man’s name Aelfweald, meaning “elf ruler”. As elder trees play a big part in folklore, and The Harry Potter books feature the Elder Wand, it’s a very magical sort of name. I saw this at Mer de Noms and in a birth announcement, then it was covered by Upswing Baby Names, and then at Appellation Mountain. Perhaps because of the Blues Brothers, this name is seemingly now very hip. Please do not match it with a brother named Joliet or Jake though.

Fingal

Fingal is a rural suburb that may be named after the Irish county of Fingal; the county’s name means “foreign territory”, because the Vikings settled in the area. However, Fingal is also the Anglicised form of the Gaelic name Fionnghall, meaning “white stranger”. This also refers to the blonde Viking settlers, and Fingal mac Gofraid, a ruler in the Scottish Hebrides, was part of this same Norse dynasty. The name has a distinct literary air, as Fingal is the hero of James McPherson’s epic poem Fingal, and Irish author Oscar Wilde had Fingal as one of his middle names (Oscar is another name from McPherson’s poetry). McPherson claimed to have based Fingal on the legends of Irish folk hero, Fionn mac Cumhaill – Fionn’s name simply means “white”, and was a nickname; his real name was Deimne (meaning “sureness, certainty”). Fingal’s Cave in the Hebrides is named for the epic hero, and the sea echoes there so melodiously that it inspired a piece by composer Felix Mendelssohn. Irish names starting with Fin- are very fashionable right now, but I haven’t really seen Fingal in use. It seems poetic, musical, and quite fairytale to me.

Gilderoy

Gilderoy is a rural locality in the outer suburbs; it’s a rare variant of the Irish surname Gilroy, an Anglication of two possible Gaelic names which either mean “son of the red haired servant” or “son of the king’s servant”. As a first name, Gilderoy was used by British Gypsies, and a man who rejoiced in the name Gilderoy Scamp was King of the Kentish Gypsies in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Of course, this name will remind many of Gilderoy Lockhart, the vain and boastful fraud from the Harry Potter books. J.K. Rowling apparently named him after the handsome Scottish highwayman, Patrick Macgregor, whose nickname was Gilderoy (from the Gaelic Gillie Roy – “red-haired lad”). Both Lockhart and Macgregor had reputations for winning women’s hearts undeservedly, and one of Macgregor’s smitten female fans is supposed to have written the song Gilderoy about him. Perhaps Rowling was also thinking the name sounds like the English word gild, meaning to give a thin veneer of gold (to cheaper materials). I don’t know if anyone will actually use this name, but it’s a pretty fabulous one, with some very colourful namesakes.

Harkaway

Harkaway was settled by German immigrants, and is now an attractive suburb with large distinguished houses and extensive parkland. I first saw this name given to a minor character in Stella Gibbons’ hilarious novel, Cold Comfort Farm, and found it fascinating. Another famous literary Harkaway was Jack Harkway, from the Victorian era “penny dreadfuls” – a schoolboy who ran away to sea and had a life of adventure. There is also the novelist Nick Harkaway, although it’s a pseudonym; he’s a son of writer John Le Carre, and his real name is Nicholas Cornwell. Hark away! is a cry traditionally used in hunting to encourage the hounds; to hark means “to hear, heed, listen”. It’s a genuine, although rare, surname, and I presume an occupational one to denote someone who worked with fox hounds. I have seen this used as a man’s name in old records from the United States; I’ve only seen it used as a middle name in Australia. This is a really unusual vocabulary name which, with its meaning of “to listen”, almost qualifies as a virtue name as well. It isn’t much like any name on the Top 100, but it continues to fascinate me.

Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe is a suburb with many old homes and an Art Deco town hall, famous for the extravagant Christmas lights display it puts on each year. It was named by a Scottish settler after Sir Walter Scott’s 1819 novel, Ivanhoe. The book is a romance about one of the few remaining Saxon noble families at a time when the English nobility were almost all Norman. The protagonist is the Saxon Wilfred of Ivanhoe, who has sworn allegiance to King Richard I, and amongst the many characters are Robin Hood and his merry men. The novel is credited for starting the medieval revival of the 19th century – hence the number of Victorian babies named Alfred or Edith. Although the book is set in Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire, the English village of Ivinghoe is in Buckinghamshire. The village’s name is Anglo-Saxon, and means “Ifa’s hill spur”. The Anglo-Saxon Ifa later merged with the Norman Ivo, both names meaning “yew bow”. It’s dashing and looks like Ivan with a fashionable OH sound, but will the -hoe at the end prove problematic? If you are stuck for sibling ideas, Elea at British Baby Names has many suggestions!

Skye

Skye is named after the Isle of Skye in Scotland, the largest island in the Inner Hebrides. It was at one time ruled by Vikings, and even the Gaelic clans who were chieftains here have Norse ancestry. The island’s name is an etymological tangle of several languages. However, the Norse referred to it as skuyö – “the isle of cloud” – and this looks a lot like the English name for the island. The ruggedly beautiful Isle of Skye has spectacular Highland scenery and abounds in wildlife such as red deer and golden eagles; a popular tourist destination, it was recently voted the fourth best island in the world. It is known for its castles, including Dunvegan, which has an ancient flag supposedly gifted by the fairies, and is the oldest Scottish castle continuously occupied by a single family (since the 13th century). The island features in the lovely Skye Boat Song, which tells of the Jacobite heroine Flora McDonald helping Bonnie Prince Charlie escape “over the sea to Skye”, after the defeat of the Jacobite rising. This attractive unisex name is more often given to girls, but to me it seems equally suitable for boys.

Yannathan

Yannathan is a rural area in the Shire of Cardinia, and its name, from a local Aboriginal language, is translated as “to walk about, wander, travel, journey, roam”. Walkabout is a term from Indigenous culture which is understood to mean a journey undertaken as a rite of passage; a deeply meaningful spiritual quest which involves connecting with the traditional land and understanding cultural obligations. Australians of British descent also use the term loosely and colloquially to mean anything from going on holiday to escaping your customary obligations to disappearing without apparent cause (as in “the scissors seem to have gone walkabout”). I am not sure if yannathan was meant in any other way than just to take a walk or go on a journey, but it’s a word which may resonate with many Australians. Pronounced YAN-a-thun, it sounds like a variant of Jonathan, and seems very usable. It’s yet another name you could get the popular nickname Nate from.

(Photo shows the iconic bathing boxes in Brighton)

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