Tag Archives: Latinate names

Requested Names: Estelle and Estella

07 Wednesday Sep 2016

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Estelle is a French name. It became known because of Saint Estelle, a legendary 3rd century martyr from Gaul whose father was a Roman nobleman, and her mother descended from a long line of powerful Druids. After converting to Christianity, her own father condemned Estelle to death for her faith, making her another of those young girl saints with less than supportive dads.

The saint’s name was actually Eustelle, from the Greek for “beautifully adorned”. Over time, the spelling of the name seems to have been altered so that it looked as if it was derived from estela, the Occitan word for “star”. (Occitan is a dialect from southern France).

Although Estelle was apparently a popular saint in the Charente region of southern France, the name doesn’t seem to have received much use until the 18th century. In 1788 the French poet Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian published a pastoral romance called Estelle and Némorin, and although critics didn’t exactly give it rave reviews, it seemed to kick-start Estelle as a baby name.

An early namesake was Estelle Duboeuf, later Fornier, who was born in 1797. The Romantic composer Hector Berlioz met Estelle on a summer holiday in the French Alps and instantly became infatuated with her. He was already a fan of Estelle and Némorin, and perhaps there was some connect between the fictional and real Estelles. He was 12 and she was 18, so this wasn’t a relationship which was going anywhere, and Estelle married a lawyer and had six children.

For the rest his life Berlioz considered her to be his muse and called her his Stella montis (Latin for “mountain star”). One of Berlioz’s early compositions was based on a song in Florian’s Estelle and Némorin, full of despair at having to leave his “star” behind. Its melody wound itself into the violins in his Symphonie fantastique, and his longing for Estelle helped inspire his symphony Romeo and Juliet.

Much later in life Berlioz again encountered Madame Fornier, now an elderly widow, and asked her to marry him. She turned him down and never understood his obsession with her, but they remained friends and he left her an annuity in his will. She was his first love, his last love, and his sweetest love, and the fact that it was almost entirely in his imagination made it all the more powerful.

The name Estelle became a favourite choice in 19th century romance novels in both Britain and America. One of the most famous examples of the name in literature must be the the beautiful but pitifully frozen-hearted Estella Havisham in Charles Dickens’ 1860 novel Great Expectations.

Dickens may have chosen the name Estella because of its similarity to Stella, the unattainable beauty in Sir Philip Sidney’s poem Astrophel and Stella, so the name already signified painful, hopeless unrequited love to a woman far out of reach, cold and distant as a lovely star.

Estella is the Latinate form of Estelle, and it has also been in use since the 18th century. It was originally more popular in Italian and Spanish-speaking countries, although used in English-speaking ones as well.

Estelle was #228 in the 1900s, and peaked in the 1920s at #222, the era of American silent screen star Estelle Taylor, regarded as one of the most beautiful women of the silent era. The name fell in popularity after Estelle gave up acting to pursue a singing career, and had an unhappy marriage to boxing champ Jack Dempsey. By the time Estelle passed away in the 1950s, the name had left the charts.

It returned in the 1970s at #625, just after American actress Estelle Parsons won an Oscar for her role in Bonnie and Clyde. It went down in the 1980s, perhaps because Estelle Getty on sitcom The Golden Girls made it seem like an old lady name. Estelle began climbing in the 2000s. Its current position is probably around the 200s, but could be higher.

In the US, Estelle was in the 100s from the late 19th century until the end of the 1920s. It left the Top 1000 in 1964 and returned in 2012. This was the same year that the Swedish royal family welcomed Princess Estelle, daughter of Crown Princess Victoria; Estelle is second in line to the throne of Sweden. The name Estelle is currently #822 in the US.

Estelle has been less popular in the UK, and was only in the Top 500 for a few years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It left the Top 1000 in 2011, but perhaps Princess Estelle brought it back, as it returned the following year. It’s currently #891 and seemingly falling again.

Estelle was a Top 100 name in France in the 1990s and early 2000s, but has been gradually falling in favour and is now #187. It’s still popular in Belgium.

Famous Australian Estelles include journalist Estelle Blackburn, naturalist and wildflower painter Estelle Thomson, and model/dancer Estelle Asmodelle, Australia’s first legally recognised transsexual, billed as “Australia’s first transsexual pin-up” in the 1980s.

In the US, Estella was in the 100s from the late 19th century until 1912, and left the charts in 1974. Like Estelle, it returned in 2012 and is now #873. Estella has never been in the Top 1000 in the UK; last year there were 16 baby girls given the name. Estella is a royal name as well, as Prince Edward of Kent’s daughter Lady Helena Taylor had a daughter named Estella in 2004.

Estelle and Estella are pretty vintage names with a fascinating literary and musical history which have recently gained royal glamour, and fit in with popular names like Isabelle and Stella. They also strike me as names which have great potential as multicultural crossovers – apart from the French connection, Estelle has sometimes been chosen by Jewish families as a spin on biblical Esther, while Estella may appeal to those from Romance language backgrounds such Italian and Portuguese.

Could one of these names be right for your little star?

Thank you to Patricia for requesting the names Estelle and Estella be featured on Waltzing More Than Matilda; Patricia is considering using one of these names.

POLL RESULTS

Estelle received an approval rating of 70%. 35% of people loved it, and only one person thought Estelle was a terrible name. Estella did less well, with an approval rating of 51%. 44% of people weren’t keen on it, although only 6% thought Estella was a terrible name.72% of people preferred the name Estelle to Estella for a baby girl.

Requested Name: Eva

02 Wednesday Apr 2014

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Front1Eva is the Latinate form of Eve, a Hebrew name translated as “breath, life”. Eve is famous as the first woman in the Bible, and the companion of the first man, Adam. She shared Adam’s fate of being cast out of the Garden of Eden, and is regarded in the Bible as the mother of all humanity. Apart from the biblical figure, there is also a saint named Blessed Eva of Liege, a medieval holy recluse.

Eva is the most usual form of the name Eve in many countries around the world, and in Ireland and Scotland, can be used to Anglicise the Irish name Aoife, meaning “beauty”. In Australia, Eva has historically been often used by European immigrants, particularly amongst Catholics and Jews. This gives it considerable scope as a potential heritage choice.

Amongst English-speakers, the name received a boost of popularity in the 19th century after the publication of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s 1852 anti-slavery novel, Uncle Tom’s Cabin. In the book, Evangeline St. Clare, or “Little Eva” is an angelic little girl who inspires love in even the most heart-hardened, and in her final throes, converts all the slaves to Christianity with some locks of her hair. It is the pure goodness of Little Eva which changes the lives of all around her.

Uncle Tom’s Cabin created a wave of pro-slavery novels to combat its views, and one of them was Little Eva: the Flower of the South, in 1853. Quick to cash in on the Little Eva phenomenon, it features yet another angelic little girl called Little Eva, equally loving and lacking in prejudice – only in this book, Eva is so kind-hearted that when the slaves are set free, they elect to remain with her of their own free will. This idealistic dream of voluntary slavery never came to pass on a large scale.

A real life Little Eva was the 1960s pop singer, born Eva Narcissus Boyd. She didn’t receive her moniker from either of these literary characters, but was called Little Eva by her family to distinguish her from her aunt, also named Eva. Little Eva is most famous for singing The Locomotion, later covered by Australian pop star Kylie Minogue. Little Eva apparently wasn’t too impressed by Kylie’s version.

Another Australian connection to Little Eva comes from World War II, when an American Air Force plane named the Little Eva got lost and crashed after a bombing mission in an isolated region of the Gulf of Carpentaria in Queensland. What happened to the survivors of the crash, and their desperate struggle against the dangers of the Australian outback, was made into a documentary called Aeroplane Dance, and is being developed into a feature film scheduled for release this year.

Eva is a classic name in Australia which has never left the charts. It was #37 in the 1900s, sinking until it left the Top 100 in the 1930s. It reached its lowest point in the 1980s at #425, then rose steeply during the 1990s to make the Top 100 for the late 2000s. Currently it is #24 nationally, #26 in New South Wales, #30 in Victoria, #31 in Queensland, #66 in Tasmania, and #27 in the Australian Capital Territory.

Eva is a very international name, being popular in all English-speaking countries, and all over Europe, including Eastern Europe and Scandinavia. It is most popular in Slovenia, at #2, and its popularity in Britain and New Zealand is almost identical to that in Australia.

Eva’s position in the Top 100 is stable, and it is now at its highest level of popularity ever. This makes it a Contemporary Classic – a traditional classic name which manages to feel modern and up-to-date. Because it is still rising, albeit gradually, it is also an Up and Coming Classic, so that it still seems rather fresh and stylish.

This all helps to make Eva an attractive choice. Furthermore, it fits in with the trend for short names ending in -a, such as Isla and Ella, and the V names, such as Ava, Ivy, Evie and Evelyn. This means that while Eva doesn’t stand out amongst its peers, neither does it sound particularly distinctive.

However, for those who care about such things, Eva has the advantage of being a classic, unlike Isla, Ella, Ava, Ivy and Evie, and also began rising before them, so that it cannot be accused of being a copycat. Eva is closest to the name Evelyn, which is also a classic that began rising in the 1990s – although Evelyn has yet to reach the popularity it enjoyed in the 1900s.

Eva is a beautiful classic name that is feminine without being frilly. Eva sounds intelligent as well as pretty, and it’s a name which ages well. It is easy to spell and pronounce, and is popular without being either extremely common or faddish. That makes it a baby name which might tick a lot of boxes on many people’s lists. The usual nicknames are Eve or Evie, but it is so short and simple that it doesn’t really need a nickname.

POLL RESULT
Eva received an excellent approval rating of 83%, making it one of the highest-rated names of 2014. People saw the name Eva as a stylish classic (23%), feminine yet not frilly (19%), beautiful or pretty (18%), and easy to spell and pronounce (17%). However, 6% thought it was too popular. Nobody thought the name Eva sounded too much like the word evil.

Thank you to Brooke for suggesting the name Eva be featured on Waltzing More Than Matilda

Famous Names: Indi and Mirabella

13 Wednesday Nov 2013

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The 44th Parliament of Australia opened yesterday at 10.40 am, with the swearing in of new MPs. When I covered a name from the election back in September, I hinted that there might be more political names coming up when all the votes had been counted. Now more than two months later, after an extraordinary vote-counting process which seems to have been more than usually disorganised, all results seem to have been declared, and we can go ahead with some names from politics.

One of the electorates which political pundits were keeping a close eye on was Indi. The division of Indi is in north-eastern Victoria, and its northern border is the Murray River, while in the south-east it is bordered by the Australian Alps. Its largest settlement is the city of Wodonga, on the border between Victoria and New South Wales. Although one of the largest electorates in Victoria, much of it lies within the Alpine National Park and is uninhabited.

Indi has existed continuously since Federation, being one of the original 75 electorates formed in 1900, and for almost all of its history has voted conservative. The last time Labor won here was in 1928, and that was because the conservative candidate rather carelessly forgot to nominate. The first person to represent Indi was Sir Isaac Isaacs, who went on to become Attorney-General, Chief Justice of the High Court, and the first Australian-born Governor-General.

The name Indi is taken from a local Indigenous name for the Murray River. Names starting with Ind- are very trendy in Australian, such Indiana, India, Indigo, Indie and Indy, and Indi seems like a great way to follow this trend with a specifically Australian meaning. It could be used for either sex, although many people feel an -i ending seems “feminine” eg Toni is for girls, Tony for boys.

Traditionally, Indi has been represented by what has been described as the “rural gentry”, but this changed in 2001 when former Melbourne barrister Sophie Panopulous (later Sophie Mirabella) won the seat with a primary vote of 40%. She was dubbed “Uptown Girl” by those who didn’t relish the thought of a young, female, Greek-Australian city lawyer representing their rural seat; however she had no trouble gaining pre-selection for the seat from the Liberal Party, and easily defeated her opponents.

Sophie continued to win elections in the safe Liberal seat, however some residents felt that she was taking them for granted. They formed a grassroots movement, Voice for Indi, to find an Independent candidate to run against Sophie Mirabella, and eventually Cathy McGowan accepted.

Cathy had been a staffer for Indi’s Liberal MP in the 1970s and ’80s, a regional councillor for the Victorian Farmer’s Federation, and President of Australian Women in Agriculture. She has a Masters in Applied Science in Agricultural and Rural Development, and received an Order of Australia for raising awareness of women’s issues in regional, rural and remote areas. Cathy lives in Indigo Valley, where she was born and raised, and works as a farmer and rural consultant.

The contest in Indi was extremely close, and counting of votes went on for eleven days, but on September 18, Sophie Mirabella conceded defeat and Cathy McGowan claimed victory by 431 votes, giving her a swing of 9.2% and a slender majority of 0.2% – the first time an Independent has won in rural Victoria since World War II, and the first Independent to ever win Indi. I believe this was the narrowest win in the lower house for this year’s election, and Sophie Mirabella was the only Liberal incumbent to lose her seat.

I can’t help feeling rather tickled that an Independent from Indigo Valley won the seat of Indi. Amazingly, nobody thought to use this as a headline, which would have been rather fetching.

An important message from the Voice for Indi election campaign is that a sitting MP should never take a safe seat for granted in the long term. The good news is that if you are stuck with a lacklustre MP in your electorate, you may be able to get rid of them with the right candidate, a well-orchestrated campaign, and grassroots support. Yay, people power!

Although she didn’t manage to make herself very popular in politics, Sophie Mirabella has a fantastic surname.

Mirabella is an Italian name which is the Latinate form of the English name Mirabel, from the Latin for “wonderful”. In the Middle Ages, Mirabel was a unisex name, but is now considered feminine, while Mirabella is specifically feminine (the male form is Mirabello – Mirabello Cavalori was an Italian painter during the Renaissance).

Beautiful, elaborate and right on trend, Mirabella would be a great choice for someone who loves Miranda and Isabella, but worries they seem too common. This has been chosen as a name for his daughter by Canadian rock singer Bryan Adams, and it’s a long-time favourite of Linda Rosenkrantz from Nameberry – that’s a very high recommendation! You could use hip Mira or popular Bella as the short form.

One other issue is that Mirabella is the name of an Australian company which makes electric light-bulbs, but when you think about it, light is a positive association. Unfortunately, I fear that the widely-loathed Mrs Mirabella may have done this pretty name more harm than a few light globes ever could.

POLL RESULTS: Indi received an approval rating of 60%, while Mirabella enjoyed more success with a rating of 75%.

(Photo shows the Murray River near Wondoga, from where the Division of Indi receives its name)

Upper Class Baby Names

18 Sunday Aug 2013

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Class, baby names, and judgement thereof seems to be a topic under discussion everywhere at the moment. BRW magazine told us how to name our babies like a rich person, Wendy Harmer set high, perhaps unattainable standards for baby names, an American blogger told us how names are done in Old Blighty’s class system, and a random Devonian reality television contestant decided nobody’s baby names were good enough, not even hers. Perhaps the royal baby is the catalyst for all this reflection – he didn’t escape the scrutiny either; the reality TV contestant decided he had a “dog name”.

And then I checked my search engine stats this week, and found that someone had Googled what baby names do upper class australians use.

Strictly speaking, Australia doesn’t have an upper class, because we don’t have a hereditary aristocracy. It’s usual to consider the richest people of a country the de facto upper class, but when we talk of someone being “upper class”, it has connotations of more than mere possession of a large disposable income. Some of the richest families in Australia are from traditionally working class or middle class backgrounds – they’re just regular people with vast fortunes.

While Australia does have a class system, it’s a flattened-out one, with fewer social divisions, and a large middle ground. Class is more fluid and less structured here than some other places. Of course, that doesn’t mean we are free of all status markers and snobbery – including name snobbery.

So if we don’t have an upper class, do we have upper class baby names? I don’t think so, because any particular name is used by a wider variety of people than you might suppose. Although in our imaginations, poor people have children named Jaidyn and Tayylah, and rich people send Agatha and Lucius off to St Barnaby’s or the Kindergarten of Higher Consciousness, in real life it is a lot less stereotypical.

When you register your baby name, the registry doesn’t ask for your family tree or your bank balance. They won’t ever say, Look, I think Peregrine is out of your price range. Might I suggest something more affordable, like Cooper? All names are equal, because they cost the same amount to register. No matter how humble your circumstances, you can give your baby any name you want – elegant, serious, trendy, sassy, bold, or eye-raising.

And because all names are equal, they won’t make any difference to your own social position, or to your child’s. A poverty-stricken family won’t receive an invitation to join the Yacht Club just because their daughter is named Agatha, and a Jaidyn born into wealth will have just as privileged a life as if his name had been Lucius, and will be just as welcome at St Barnaby’s.

Although some people fret that their baby’s name needs to sound like a doctor, a judge, a professor, or a prime minister for them to succeed, in real life surgeons are named Kellee, chief justices are named Wayne, academics are named Tiffany and Brandy, and prime ministers are named Kevin. Not only does your name not indicate where you came from, it doesn’t indicate where you are going either.

However, it’s fair to say that some names have an upper class image. I don’t think Australia is significantly different from other English-speaking countries when it comes to what names may be perceived as upper class.

Names Which May Be Seen as Upper Class

Please note: This is by no means an exhaustive list, just a few ideas as to what I think sounds “upper class”, what others may perceive as upper class, or that I have noticed upper-middle class people choosing. I am not recommending these styles of name, or suggesting you use them.

  • Classic English-style names eg Thomas and Lucy
  • Anglo-Saxon type names eg Alfred and Edith
  • Names from European royalty eg Leopold and Adelaide
  • Latin and Latinate names eg Rufus and Aurelia; Hugo and Miranda
  • Classical names eg Leander and Hermione
  • Retro names eg Arthur and Florence
  • So old-fashioned that they’re hip eg Reginald and Gertrude
  • Vintage-style nicknames as full names eg Monty and Lottie
  • Names that have remained in use while never becoming popular eg Theodore and Susannah
  • Uncommon Scottish-style names for boys eg Cormac and Fergus
  • Uncommon flower names for girls eg Dahlia and Saffron
  • Historical surname names for boys eg Forbes and Monash
  • Whimsical names eg Huckleberry and Tuppence (while putting the whimsical name in the middle is the prudently middle class thing to do)
  • Fashionable “arty” names eg Ziggy and Coco (strike me as more aspirational middle class for some reason)
  • Literary names eg Caspian and Evangeline (these definitely seem middle class, as the middle class is keenest on reading)

How Middle to Upper-Middle Class Australian People Tend to Judge Names

Please note: I am not suggesting you follow any of this advice. It is for information only.

  • They like names that are spelled the more commonly accepted way. People are really fussy about this for some reason, and even slight changes to a name can bring on eye-rolling.
  • Any name that looks or sounds recently “made up” is frowned upon (although it’s fine if it was created a long time ago and therefore has a history behind it).
  • If a name has several variations, the simpler one is usually considered more upper class than the more elaborate eg Isabel rather than Isabella, Alice rather than Alicia, Sophie rather than Sophia.
  • Classic and retro names are usually considered more upper class than modern classics. However, Sophia is a classic name and Sophie is a modern classic, yet Sophie is more upper class than Sophia – so this does have exceptions, or can be overwritten by another rule.
  • Hyphenated names for girls, like Emma-Rose or Ruby-Lee, are often viewed with suspicion. This could be because “double” names are elaborations by their very nature.
  • Masculine or unisex names on girls are generally considered downmarket, while a unisex or feminine-sounding name on a boy often has quite a bit of cachet. So Mackenzie on a girl = thumbs down, Mackenzie on a boy = thumbs up.
  • It is fashionable to show pride in your cultural heritage, so Lorenzo, Agnieszka, Tevita, Silka and Johannes can be more stylish than Laurence, Agnes, David, Cecilia and John.
  • Conversely, many people seem to think that using names from a culture that you don’t have any immediate tie to looks distasteful. I think it’s silly, but it seems to be a widespread idea.
  • One or two middle names are fine, but once you reach three or more middle names (and you’re not royalty), you are considered to have gone beyond the bounds of good taste. It’s a little arbitrary, but it does seem to be the rule.

Names Not Obviously One Class or Another

  • Many names that have been highly popular for a length of time – by their nature, popular names are “of the people”; it’s easier for a name to remain very popular if many groups of people use them. Names like Charlotte, William, Chloe and Lachlan could belong to almost anyone, and do.
  • Hickster names – those that are fashionable-sounding yet slightly countrified, like Mayella and Elroy. Even after reading the birth notices carefully, looking for clues as to which kind of families choose these names, I still don’t know.
  • Uncommon nature names – names like Leaf or Snow are hard to place, I think. I have seen these names on children from absolutely everywhere on the social spectrum.
  • Extremely rare or obscure but genuine names – due to the fact they are almost never heard of, they don’t have any social context to put them into. You may only meet one Harmon in your whole life – so how can you generalise about the name?

What names do you think have an upper class image? And do you think there is any such thing as an upper class name? 

Famous Name: Greta

30 Wednesday Jan 2013

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11/11/2011 NEWS: Greta. Ned Kelly Burial.On January 20 this year, the story of bushranger Ned Kelly reached a conclusion, with his dying wish fulfilled, and his remains buried in the cemetery at Greta, in Victoria’s north-east. As a convicted murderer, Kelly was denied burial in consecrated ground after his execution in November 1880. His headless body was dumped in a pit and covered in lime.

A Requiem Mass was held at St Patrick’s in Wangaratta the preceding Friday; there are about 450 descendants of Ned Kelly, and many of them attended the church. During the homily, Monsignor John White said that some people had written to object to Ned Kelly receiving a public liturgy, but that the service was not to make judgement, but to bring closure. The service ended with In the Sweet By-and-By, the hymn Kelly is said to have sung in his cell the night before he was hanged.

Under a marquee, Ned Kelly was privately buried next to the unmarked gravesite of his mother Ellen; his brother Dan, and Steve Hart, one of his gang-members, also lie in unmarked graves in Greta cemetery. Ned’s coffin was adorned with a wreath of native Australian flowers and the green sash he was awarded in his youth for saving a boy from drowning. The coffin was buried deep, and surrounded by concrete to prevent looting. There are also five mounds of earth instead of one, to deter grave robbers.

The district of Greta is deep in “Kelly country“, the region of rural Victoria where Ned Kelly was born, grew up, and fought. His famous last stand at Glenrowan was less than 10 miles from Greta. Many of the Kelly family still live in the area, and the Ned Kelly legend remains compelling, with almost every local having their own Kelly-related tale to tell.

The district is thought to be named after the River Greta in Cumbria, England, part of the background to Rokeby, a poem by Sir Walter Scott which was popular at the time. The river’s name is Old Norse, and means “rocky river”. It is pronounced GREE-ta.

This is somewhat embarrassing to admit, but for a long time I thought the girl’s name Greta was also said GREE-ta. I knew it was short for the German name Margareta, and assumed it was said to rhyme with Rita, which is short for the Latinate name Margarita (both names of course are relatives of the name Margaret).

I was in my early twenties before I met someone named Greta, and discovered the name is (as I’m sure you all know) said GRET-uh. As the Greta I met happened to be in the public eye, the fact that I was ignorant how her name was pronounced seemed even more embarrassing.

One of the most famous women with this name was the Swedish-born Hollywood star Greta Garbo, famed for her austere beauty and luminous screen presence. Mysterious and reclusive, she shunned publicity and lived a very private life. Here we also know the Italian-born Australian actress Greta Scacchi, who grew up in Perth, but has lived and worked in England for many years – although she visits Australia from time to time.

As you see, this is a name at home in several countries, and Greta is a Top 100 name in Sweden, Hungary and Italy. In the United States it is #684 and fairly stable, and in the UK it is #586 and climbing.

In Australia, Greta was in rare use in the 1900s, and has enjoyed a very uneven career. The highest it ever got was #206 in the 1930s (at the apex of Ms Garbo’s success), and it disappeared altogether in the 1950s and 1960s. It has also hit lesser peaks in the 1910s, the 1970s and the 1990s. The name hasn’t charted since 2009 – but given the way it has jumped up and down the charts, you can expect to see it again before too long (but not too much of it).

In other words, this is a name with plenty of history in Australia, but not tons of use, and has never come anywhere close to being popular. As such, it retains something of the mystique that Greta Garbo radiated – cool, reserved, exclusive; a name selected by discerning parents. Make no mistake, Greta is a very hip choice.

Greta is the cosseted darling of name nerds, who believe it to be beautiful, dignified and sadly neglected by those who fail to appreciate her (these are the same name nerds who would drop Greta like a hot potato if masses of parents actually took their advice and called their daughters Greta, so it became Top Ten. Then Greta would be “Such a nice name – but simply ruined by everyone using it”).

So here’s another embarrassing admission. I’m not a huge fan of the name Greta, which to me has a rather harsh sound, reminding me of words such as grim, grisly, groan, gritty, grizzle, gross, grotty, granite, grumpy, grouch, grate, grasp, growl, grovel, grubby, gruff, gruesome, grumble, grump, grunt and regret. Somehow it never seems to remind me of graceful, gratitude, greetings, grand, great, groovy and egret! Which is manifestly unfair.

Perhaps if I could play psychoanalyst to myself, I might theorise that the real reason I don’t care for Greta is that it is inextricably linked in my subconscious to the embarrassment of not knowing how to pronounce a celebrity’s name when meeting them – and that even the Greta I met being very beautiful and extremely charming could not wipe out my feelings of shame. Indeed, perhaps that made them worse.

In other words, don’t pay any attention to my opinions about this name. It’s not Greta, it’s me.

POLL RESULT: Greta received a very creditable 76% approval rating. The name Greta was seen as beautiful and dignified (32%), and cool and European (18%), although 16% thought it was frumpy and harsh. 8% thought the name Greta was neglected and needed to be used more, while 6% noted that if it was used more, it would no longer be hip. A besotted 3% insisted they would still use Greta even if it was the #1 name. Only one person preferred the pronunciation GREE-ta.

(Picture shows Greta cemetery in Victoria)

Is Cressida a Girl Name or a Car Name?

03 Saturday Nov 2012

Posted by in Naming Assistance

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Emily and David are expecting a baby girl in three weeks, and still haven’t settled on a name for her. They’ve thought of lots of nice names they could use, but each one seems to have its drawbacks, and they keep crossing names off their list and changing their minds. So far, they don’t really love one name more than another; none of them seem to jump out and say, “I’m the one – stop looking!”.

When they chose their first child’s name, it was much easier. David suggested the name Clementine, Emily loved it too, and straight away it seemed perfect and they never considered anything else. This time it’s been quite different, and they’ve found the process more worrisome.

At the moment they have on their list:

  • Cressida – Emily is slightly bothered by the car called the Toyota Cressida
  • Ottilie – concerned about spelling and pronunciation issues
  • Josephine – like it a lot, but doesn’t seem very exciting
  • Isadora – worried about references to Dora the Explorer, or that she’ll be yet another Izzy in a sea of Isabellas and Isabels
  • Mathilda – David loves Mathilde, but Emily thinks it’s too French and won’t be pronounced correctly; also aware of the popularity of Matilda, which isn’t a problem if it’s the right name
  • Francesca – loved it for ages, but a friend has just used it

Their name style is for names that have been forgotten by most people, a bit quirky, and with a vintage feel. They would like a name that is interesting and offbeat, but not “made up”. They seem to be leaning towards three-syllable names ending with -a, and Emily loves names that have a European/French vibe to them but don’t sound out of place in an English-speaking country.

David and Emily have a typically Scottish surname, such as Baxter, Cameron or Ramsay.

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Emily and David, I know you probably feel slightly desperate, with your baby due in only a few weeks, and still no name picked for her. However, I think you’re actually doing really great. You know what your name style is, and you have very compatible tastes in names. You’ve already drawn up a list of lovely names, and if your daughter was born tomorrow, you could probably use any of them for her.

I think you had such a dream run choosing the name for your first child that your expectations are slightly unrealistic. Sometimes the perfect name drops into your lap from the heavens, but you can’t expect that to happen every time. Finding little niggling things wrong with the names you like best is completely normal.

I’d stop trying to find the perfect name that ticks absolutely every box and has no flaws of any kind, and concentrate on finding one that you both like, and that you can imagine saying every day for the rest of your lives. A name that your daughter can grow into and grow up with, and a name that fits into your family and lifestyle. It doesn’t have to be “perfect” – it just needs to work for you.

Let’s have a look at your name list:

Cressida

I’m extremely biased, as this is one of my favourite names and has been for many years. I love the upper-class eccentric feel of the name, and the crisp sound of the first syllable. The meaning of the name – “golden” – is also beautiful.

I know you’re a bit worried about the Toyota Cressida, but they stopped making them 20 years ago, which seems like ancient history to me. The Cressida isn’t a famous or classic car, and I haven’t heard it mentioned for decades (I actually forgot this car even existed) . In Australia, the car isn’t said the same way as the name either – it’s pronounced kreh-SEE-dah, whereas the girl’s name is KREHS-ih-dah (in the US, they say the car name “correctly”). On the one hand, that makes the human name distinct from the car; on the other hand, some people may try to say your daughter’s name like the car, and would need gentle correction.

The fact that you feel a bit excited about this name is a good sign, and the way it breaks one of your “rules” is also encouraging. You didn’t want another name starting with C, so the fact you are still seriously considering it means you must be very interested. I would definitely keep this one on your list for now.

Ottilie

I love the idea of this name, but like you, I’d be concerned about the pronunciation. I’ve listened to it being said by people from around the world on forvo, and it seems to be said quite differently in each country. The only English-speaking nation to contribute is the USA, and they seem to have two pronunciations – OTT-uh-lee, and aw-TIL-ee-uh. I actually don’t know how to pronounce this name correctly, and I’m unclear as to whether there even is a correct way to say it. I’ve tried saying all the pronunciations in my standard Australian accent, and I’m not impressed with the results. I think you’d have to be really certain you knew how it was going to be said, prepared to educate people on it, and to be forgiving if they mangled it. If this doesn’t daunt you, then you obviously love the name dearly, and should keep it on your list.

Josephine

This is a great name, and a classic which has never gained high levels of popularity. However, I dislike it as a sister match to Clementine, as to me the endings of the names are too similar.

Isadora

I think this name is gorgeous, and would make a lovely match with Clementine, and with your surname. I don’t think she would be “yet another Izzy”, as most girls called Isabella go by Bella as their nickname. I think you are worrying way too much about Dora the Explorer – Dora the Explorer is a positive character! She’s smart, kind, friendly and helpful. I would definitely keep this one your list, and give it serious consideration.

Mathilda

I sympathise with David – he’s right, Clementine and Mathilde are a great match. On the other hand, you’re right about the French pronunciation. Mathilda seems like a good compromise, and I think it’s worth keeping this one on your list too.

Francesca

The fact that your friend has used the name, and you still have it on your list, shows that you have quite an attachment to it. Understandable – it’s a lovely name, and like Clementine, is fashionable without being popular. Whether you use it or not depends on how you and your friend feel about sharing your childrens’ names; whether you think that seems cute and fun and a wonderful bond between you, or whether it would cause problems in your relationship. It probably depends a lot on what kind of a friendship you have, and maybe even how often you see each other. If both of you are happy to share, then I’d keep it on your list.

You asked for more name ideas: I feel as if you have already thought of everything by now, having already crossed off a long list of possible names. However, here’s some more:

Aurelia

Like Cressida, this name means “golden”, and is a nice match with Clementine. To me it seems European, vintage and quirky. I’ve seen a few people in birth notices choose Aurelia as a middle name, so I can tell that parents like it, but haven’t quite the confidence yet to use it as a first name. I’d like to see it move out of the middle name spot.

Elodie

You considered Eloise at one point; I thought this seemed an alternative to that. It’s pretty, French, and like Clementine is fashionable and underused at present.

Lilias

You might think this is a bit corny, but I couldn’t resist matching your Scottish surname with a Scottish name. Lilith was on your reject list, and this has a very similar sound. As a clementine is a type of mandarin, Clementine and Lilias is a sweet “fruit and flower” sibset.

Miranda

This is a Latinate name like Clementine, and I think Clementine and Miranda make a pretty and romantic sibset. Miranda is a name which is currently gaining in popularity while not being heavily used yet, and I think it would meet with widespread approval.

Rosamund or Rosamond

You already rejected Rosalie and Rosalind, so I thought I’d try you with another Rose name. It’s European, aristocratic and slightly off-beat, and Clementine and Rosamund make an elegant sibset.

Sylvia or Silvia

To me, this has a similar feel to many names on your reject list. It’s European and vintage, and definitely isn’t heavily used. I like the woodsy meaning, and the silvery sound of the name. Like Clementine, it’s not a nature name, but it somehow feels like one.

Readers, when you hear the name Cressida, do you think “girl” or “car”? Which names on Emily and David’s list do you like best, or which names would you recommend to them?

NOTE: The baby’s name was Isadora Mathilde!