Tag Archives: choosing baby names

Is Grace Too Short, or Too Popular?

09 Saturday May 2015

Posted by in Naming Assistance

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Kristel and David were told they couldn’t have children, but just as they gave up trying, they discovered they were expecting a baby girl, who will arrive in a few months. They are still a bit in shock, but naturally overjoyed.

There is only one name they have both agreed on – Grace. As soon as they found out the baby’s sex, Dave began calling her Gracie. As well as both of them liking the name Grace, it seems appropriate, since their daughter feels like something of a “miracle baby”.

However, Kristel is worried that the name Grace is too popular, and hates the thought that their daughter might have to share her name with four other girls named Grace in all her classes at school. She has suggested other names to Dave, such as Amelia, Elisa, and Stella, but he doesn’t care for them. Dave quite likes the name Estelle though.

Kristel believes this might very well be their only child, and she wants her daughter to have a suitable, traditional, classic, feminine name that she will hopefully like and feel proud of.

Another issue is that Kristel and Dave have a one syllable surname that sounds similar to a vocabulary word, such as Cooke, and people have told them that because of this, they need a longer first name to balance their short surname.

The middle name they have picked out is Audrey, a family name which the baby will share with three other generations. However, Kristel is open to suggestions.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Kristel and David, congratulations on your wonderful and very unexpected news! After years of waiting, of course you want your baby to have the perfect name, and it’s natural to feel that this is your one chance to get it right.

My instinct is that you have got it right, because I immediately connected the name to your situation, with Grace implying a divine gift or blessing, related to the word grateful. The Greek goddesses known as the Graces were also connected with fertility, giving it another level of meaning.

Furthermore, Grace seems to tick all your boxes very neatly, because it’s a classic, traditional, and feminine name. Blog readers are in agreement that Grace is a beautiful timeless classic, simple yet sophisticated, suitable for all ages, and intelligent and professional, so it seems eminently suitable. I think Grace Audrey is a very attractive name combination as well, and love the idea of using a family name that has been passed down for several generations.

But what about its popularity? Grace is in the Top Ten if you look at names without combining spellings, and is #12 on the combined spellings list. That represents just a little over 1200 babies called Grace born in Australia during 2014 (about 0.8% of baby girls). There are around 7000 schools in Australia which accept primary school students, so statistically that isn’t even one Grace per Year 1 class. More good news is that Grace’s popularity has been stable for more than a decade, making it a safe, if popular, choice.

I can’t guarantee that your daughter will be the only Grace in her class, but I would be astounded if there were five girls called Grace. In the case of name-sharing in a classroom (or sports team etc), a nickname is often a help, so should it happen, Gracie could perhaps come to the rescue.

Is Grace too short? I haven’t been strongly persuaded by the argument that a short surname needs a longer name to balance it. Looking at famous women named Grace, singers Grace Jones, Grace Slick (born Grace Wing), and Grace Knight sound perfectly fine to me. In fact Grace Jones was born Beverly Jones, and she chose to use her “too short” middle name Grace instead.

Two short names together do sound quite strong and punchy, and I think there may be a touch of sexism involved, as people seem to be most keen that girls with a short surname be given a longer name. I wonder if you were having a boy instead, and were considering the name Miles, would you be given the same advice, or would Miles Cooke sound okay? If your daughter feels that Grace Cooke is too abrupt for her, she has the option to go by Gracie Cooke if she prefers – and I guess she could always go by her middle name if she wanted to.

In a case where they were worried about name length and popularity, some parents might choose to use Gracie as the name on the birth certificate, but is that the right choice for you? Because you say that you want a traditional classic name, that seems to point more towards Grace than cute Gracie. I get the feeling that you would prefer your daughter had a name like Grace, and kept Gracie as a nickname only.

Whether a name is too short or too popular is a matter of personal choice, and you and Dave are the only people who can answer these questions. But it feels as if you have really settled on Grace already. It’s the only name you agree on, and Dave seems to have begun getting emotionally attached to the name, already thinking of his daughter as little Gracie. I imagine it might be quite a wrench for him to think of her as anything else.

Although I can’t promise that your daughter will love her name, there is nothing wrong with the name Grace, and lots of things that are right. And I can’t imagine anyone not feeling proud to learn the special meaning of their name, and touched to know that their father was already calling them by their pet name before they were even born.

As you say, this is most likely your only child, and I would hate to see you compromise on another longer, less popular name together, such as Estella, and then regret it later. Deep in your hearts, do you already know that her name is Grace?

UPDATE: The baby’s name is Grace!

POLL RESULTS
96% of respondents didn’t think that Grace was too popular to use. 46% of people said not to even think about popularity once you’ve found the right name, 35% thought Grace was a little bit too popular, but still usable for someone who loved it, and 15% flat out said it wasn’t too popular. Only 4% of people thought Top 10 Grace was too popular to even consider.

93% of respondents didn’t think that Grace was too short matched with a one-syllable surname. 69% of people thought it sounded good, while 24% thought it seemed okay. 4% thought it did seem a bit odd, but not enough to worry about, while only 1% (one person) thought it sounded ridiculous. 2% of people weren’t sure.

Name News: Bagging Out Bad Baby Names, Baby Boomers Bite the Dust, and Branding Your Baby

22 Wednesday Apr 2015

Posted by in Names in the News

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Lara Bingle and Sam Worthington’s son Rocket Zot recently got his name hammered in the press. Celebrity mum Chrissie Swan wouldn’t have approved of that, because she believes that nobody deserves to have their baby name rubbished. She had her children’s’ names, Kit and Peggy, criticised, so she knows how horrible it feels. However, even Chrissie draws the line somewhere, and for her it is demonic names. I’ve noticed nobody seems able to say, “All baby names are great”; everyone has a clause in fine print that says, “Except for these obviously terrible names that nobody in their right mind would consider”.

However, while Alissa Warren from Mamamia agrees that bagging out someone’s baby name after the baby is born is not on, she thinks it’s fine to do it before the baby is born (as a warning, I guess). Chrissie would not be on board with that, because her son’s name was called “a nothing name” before his birth, which has damaged her relationship with the friend who shared this pre-natal opinion. Lots of comments on the article, with nearly all of them saying that you can’t be rude about someone’s baby name before the baby is born either, or even if the name hasn’t been decided yet.

They weren’t quite criticised, but certain rare names chosen by Australian parents at Baby Center this year were mentioned on Scoopla. Boys names included Anthem, Basil, Denim, Falcon, Finnick, Guru, Judge, Patch, Ranger, Tiger, Viggo, Zealand, and Zeppelin, while unusual names for girls were Agape, Chia, Elowen, Holiday, Hyacinth, Lark, Neo, Nivea, Posey, Sparrow, Tempest, and Violina. Members voted Moody for boys and Yolo for girls (an acronym for You Only Live Once) as the most unusual names they had heard of.

Of course, people are always fiddling the numbers to “prove” how rare or how common a name is, sometimes with unconvincing results. The Daily Telegraph looked through the data, and found that names like Arya are more often used than “common” Australian names like Kylie and Sharon. Sharon is a common name for women in their fifties – not at all common for newborn babies. Surely no one is surprised to hear there are more new babies named Arya than Sharon?

Same with this article on baby boomer names which are supposedly “dying out”. There’s not many Bruces around, but the numbers have remained pretty stable for the past 15 years, which doesn’t spell death to me. Neil is holding its own, and Ian is a classic which is still in the 200s – not even close to needing palliative care. Sandra hasn’t disappeared from the charts just yet, and classic Helen has been stable for a decade and may even be on the rise. The article is quite right though that even the “dead” names could very well come back one day – one day people will be naming their babies after Great-Grandmother Judith, the same way Elsie and Ruby have been rediscovered.

If you yearn for your own unique baby name, and are dismayed to find that Finnick and Elowen aren’t as one-off as you’d hoped, a Swiss company will custom design you one, for a measly $40 000. They have 14 naming experts, 4 historians, 12 translators, and two trademark attorneys who will work for 100 hours to create a baby name list for you. All elements of the name will have a positive meaning, and they often combine words in a new order, or use vocabulary words that haven’t been used as names before. The trouble is that the company is called Erfolgswelle (it means “wave of success” in German), which doesn’t inspire confidence in their naming abilities.

You can also go the cheapie option, and crowd source your baby name, like north-coast NSW inventor Cedar and his partner Kylie did. Their baby came early, and he was a boy when they were expecting a girl, so they didn’t have any baby names planned. Cedar and his dad had already used crowd funding for their innovative bee hive, so naturally saw crowd sourcing the baby name as an extension. So far, the most popular baby name is Buzz.

And why does your baby need a unique baby name? So they can start building their personal brand, for we are assured that in the future there will be no such things as a CV, and employers will instead be making hiring decisions based on your personal website (preferably with its own .com) and social media strategies. Already nine year-old surfer Winter Vincent has his own Instagram, Facebook and Vimeo, and has attracted sponsors through his charity work and his “amazing name”. And Millie-Belle Diamond is only 14-months old but already earns up to $250 a post on Instagram flogging teeny-size fashion brands. Don’t Winter Vincent and Millie-Belle Diamond already sound like brand names? And they didn’t cost $40 000 or require a crowd to pitch in, so if you want an amazing name to brand your baby, you can do it yourself quite successfully.

(Photo of Millie-Belle Diamond from Instagram)

Name Update: Welcome Archer and Cleo’s Sister!

04 Wednesday Mar 2015

Posted by in Name Updates

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Lydia and Oliver weren’t planning on more children after they had Archer and Cleo – but then they received a delightful surprise, with the news that they would be having another girl. Although lots of names were up for discussion, the two front runners were Edie and Quinn, and Lydia wrote in to the blog to ask what people thought of their choices.

The baby arrived early this year, and they chose the name fairly easily. The middle name was going to be Joy, but Oliver didn’t like that, and he made a suggestion that Lydia really liked, so her name is

EDIE FLORENCE,

little sister to Archer and Cleo.

The only issue has been is that Edie was born with health problems that required emergency medical intervention, and has needed a lot of care in hospital. With so many doctors and nurses reading her name, Lydia is frustrated that they often mis-read it, and call her little girl “Eddie”. She is thinking of changing the spelling to Eadie to make the pronunciation more obvious. Apart from that, she is absolutely thrilled with Edie’s name, and of course, absolutely thrilled with her daughter, who has proved such a tough little fighter.

Congratulations to Lydia and Oliver, and may their little Edie Florence continue to grow and flourish as much her name suggests. It’s a gorgeous name, and isn’t the sibset of Archer, Cleo and Edie adorable? Blog readers voted Edie as their favourite choice for the baby, so I’m sure this will receive wide approval.

What Would You Name a Brother for Alfie and Ned?

28 Saturday Feb 2015

Posted by in Naming Assistance

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Kathleen and Michael are expecting their third child in a few months, and already have two sons named Alfie and Ned. If they have a girl, there are plenty of names that they could choose, but they are quite stuck if there is another boy on the way.

They have considered the name Otis, but are not sure if it fits with their other children’s’ names, and Michael has rejected the name Jock, which was also under discussion.

Kathleen and Michael like fairly traditional names which aren’t too common – Kathleen doesn’t want a Top 100 name, or a name which is rapidly rising into the Top 100.

They would prefer a nickname-style name to match Alfie and Ned, hopefully one which doesn’t start with A or N, and ideally would like a shortish name, as they have a reasonably long surname eg Bassingthwaite.

* * * * * * * * * *

Kathleen, I can sympathise with you having tons of girl’s names lined up, yet feeling stuck for boy’s names after having two sons. I have two daughters, and if we had another child, I would be brimming with ideas for boys’ names, but picking another girl’s’ name would be a bit stressful.

I feel confident that we would come up with an attractive girl’s name that sounded nice with our surname, fitted the middle names we have planned, and sounded okay with her siblings. But would I be able to pick a name that we absolutely loved, that thrilled us to the marrow, and that seemed to click into place absolutely perfectly? I’m not sure about that.

It’s possible that it will be hard for you to find a name that you instantly connect with and get excited over, and I think in that situation it’s only fair that you keep your expectations realistic, and your options open.

When you’re not feeling the love, then at least you can be business-like about it, and think about names that really work for you – that fit into your family, and that tick as many of your boxes as possible. You’re still a fair way off your due date, and you definitely have time to find a good name. Maybe even time to learn to love a good name!

First off, I wouldn’t dismiss Otis immediately if you like it. I think it’s a fantastic choice; it’s very hip and is nowhere near hitting the Top 100. And although it might not be an obvious match with Alfie and Ned, I don’t think it sounds bad with them either.

It’s a cute, spunky name, like Alfie and Ned, and being a surname form of Otto, you could see it as having a bit of a nickname vibe too (especially as Otto itself began life as a nickname). I think Alfie, Ned and Otis make a nice set, and Otis sounds great with your surname too.

However, if I haven’t managed to convince you, don’t worry, because there are so many fashionable and cute nickname names for boys that aren’t in the Top 100.

Two that are going like hot cakes at the moment are Lenny and Sonny, which have a similar popularity to Ned. However, if you are super nervous at the idea that your chosen name might go Top 100 one day, then these are a bit of a risk.

Three that are a similar level of popularity to Alfie are Gus, Jimmy, and Johnny. I must say, I think Gus sounds adorable as a brother to Alfie and Ned, and is another stand out choice with your surname.

Once we start getting into the less-common, but still familiar, nicknames, you might consider Jonty or Ollie. I’m seeing a lot of Vince and Joe lately, and Monty is one which seems like a perfect match with your sons’ names, and with your surname – it sounds quite posh.

Or you could go for something which is rarely used, such as Freddie, Jem, Kip or Kit. Freddie is ultra-cute like Alfie, and Kip has that same air of derring-do and adventure that Ned has.

However, I don’t think you should tie yourself down to thinking you must have another short form name, just because Alfie and Ned have one. There’s plenty of other names that will still blend in nicely with your family.

You could pick a name that isn’t a nickname, but has a cute, nicknamey feel, like Remy. Or a surname name that has a casual, nicknamey vibe, like Digby or Murphy. Or a nickname that doesn’t come from a name, like Banjo, Dusty, or Sunny. There’s also short simple names, such as Rex – that would sound really handsome alongside your boys, and very alpha male with your surname.

Out of the names I’ve mentioned, I think my favourites would be Otis, Gus, Monty, Freddie, Kip, Digby, and Rex, but if you are truly out of ideas, I think you should let your imagination go wild. Eliminate names you really hate, and names in the Top 100 if that bothers you, then let yourself consider any name that sounds attractive and fits with your family. The results might surprise you!

UPDATE: The baby was a girl, and her name was Pearl!

POLL RESULTS
People’s favourite choices for a brother for Alfie and Ned were Otis (32%) and Gus (29%). If Pearl had been a boy, her name would have been Otis.

Celebrity Baby News: Football Babies

17 Saturday Jan 2015

Posted by in Celebrity Baby News

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Rugby union player Sonny Bill Williams, and his wife Alana Raffie, welcomed their daughter Imaan on November 18 last year. Sonny Bill is a New Zealander from a sporting family who has played rugby in both France and New Zealand, and is signed with the Chiefs for this season. He also plays for the national side, and is the first Muslim to play for the All Blacks, having converted to Islam in 2008. He is also a heavyweight boxer, taking up the sport in 2009; he will fight American Chauncy Welliver in Sydey at the end of the month. Sonny Bill has lived in Australia and played rugby league for the Bulldogs and the Roosters, so he has a high profile here, and his wife Alana, a former dancer, is an Australian of South African heritage. The couple met through Facebook in June 2013, and were married six weeks later. Apparently Alana liked the name Armani (meaning “faith”), and Sonny Bill was keen on Eman (meaning “safety”); Imaan seems to be a good compromise, because it sounds like dad’s choice, and has the same meaning as mum’s choice.

Australian rules footballer Shane Savage, and his partner Sarah, welcomed their son Jett Isaac on January 6. Shane began his career at Hawthorn in 2009, and since last year has been signed with St Kilda. Originally from New Zealand, he moved to Australia as a child.

(Photo shows Alana and Sonny Bill)

Update: He’s Short and Sweet to a T!

18 Thursday Dec 2014

Posted by in Name Updates

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Kate and Steve were expecting their third child, and since they received help at Waltzing More Than Matilda when naming #2, thought it was worthwhile to try us again.

If the baby was a boy, both Kate and Steve were keen on the name Ted for him. However, Kate’s mum didn’t think Ted was a “proper” name, and that a more formal option was necessary for the birth certificate.

Kate wondered whether her mum was right, but after writing into the blog she felt a lot more confident about their decision, and when their baby boy was born, he was named

TED WILLIAM,

baby brother to Madeline and Lewis.

Kate and Steve have had an overwhelmingly positive response to the name Ted; most people have been a little surprised by the name, but in a good way. The midwives at the hospital told Kate that they have seen a few Teds born lately, so Kate thinks it must be a name on the rise – I agree with the midwives, as I see it fairly regularly in birth notices now.

If Ted had been a girl, his name would have been Rose Eleanor, and Kate loves the name so much that she feels a tiny bit sad that they won’t be having any more children, because baby Ted has completed their family. There’s so often that name you never get to use!

Congratulations Kate and Steve! Ted is such a great name, and it sounds as if everyone else thinks so too.

(Picture shows Winnie-the-Pooh alphabet figurine)

Update: The Baby Who Came With Good Tidings for the Season

15 Monday Dec 2014

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Courtney wanted an unusual name for her second baby, and her first choice for a son was Arrow. She wrote in the blog wondering if Arrow was really too strange to use, as her husband Joel worried it was too different.

Most people who answered the poll seemed to think Arrow was the right sort of different rather than too weird. Courtney remained strongly in favour of Arrow, but in the end Joel couldn’t be persuaded.

Courtney and Joel recently welcomed their second son, and together they have decided that his name is

GABRIEL,

little brother to Israel.

Both Courtney and Joel love the name Gabriel, and Courtney thinks that the name works well as a brother for Israel. She also sees the name as a little nod towards the Christmas season, and I couldn’t agree more, as the archangel Gabriel so often features in Christmas pageants and Nativity scenes.

Congratulations to Courtney and Joel on choosing a beautiful name for their son! Even though Courtney’s choice of Arrow was vetoed, they were able to work together to find a name that was perfect for both of them. Courtney says maybe someone else will choose Arrow – who knows, maybe it is the right name for you?

(Painting shows a detail from Annunciation by Titian – 1522)

Their Baby Girl Has a Name!

01 Monday Dec 2014

Posted by in Name Updates

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Charlotte and Jake had a very difficult time choosing a baby name for their new daughter. Their first choice, Elsie, was derailed by a family disagreement, and they came home from hospital with a nameless baby.

They started calling their little girl Mabel, but received so many rude comments from other people that it made them second-guess themselves, and wonder if it was really the right choice. Their name list got longer and longer, as the sixty-day due date for registration loomed ever closer.

After writing in to the blog, Charlotte and Jake made some tough decisions, and cut their list down to just two names – Elsie Josephine and Mabel Birdie Rose. Their daughter’s name was registered on the 59th day and her name formally announced, but there was a bit of to-and-froing on the registry front, as the middle name remained under discussion. The registry was very supportive and understanding during this process.

Finally, they could tell the world that their baby girl, now four months and one day old, was definitely (absolutely for sure and no take backs) was

MABEL ROSE, nicknamed “BIRDIE“,

little sister to OLIVE.

Charlotte, Jake, and Olive adore Mabel’s name and are very happy with the choice they made. Mabel Rose suits her best because it’s sweet and fuss-free, but the nickname Birdie is one that everyone loves, and Olive also has a cute little pet name that isn’t connected to her name. When Mabel is older, if she wishes, Birdie will be officially added to her name, but even if it’s not on the birth certificate, Birdie will be a part of her name story forever.

I think Charlotte and Jake have done an outstanding job at choosing a name which was perfect for them and their family, and what a great way to incorporate Birdie into her name. The name Mabel was extremely popular with the public, so I think other people are going to be very enthusiastic too.

I’m sure Mabel is going to be very interested in her name story in the future, and will be amazed at how many people were discussing her name before it had even been registered! I hope you’ve all enjoyed being a part of Mabel’s name story, and Charlotte wishes to pass on her deep gratitude to everyone who offered guidance and gave them the confidence to choose the name they loved.

The Gentle Art of Discussing Baby Names

16 Sunday Nov 2014

Posted by in Naming Issues

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Being a life-long name-nerd, I spent a lot of my younger years dreaming up names for future children. In these daydreams, I was joined at the hip with someone who agreed enthusiastically with my name choices, or responded joyously : “But my darling! That has always been my favourite name, too!”. At the very worst, I hoped my future other half would be the type who said, “Honestly, I’m not very interested in baby names. Anything you pick you out will be fine, sweetie pie”.

These dreams did not eventuate. My husband turned out not to be the easygoing “whatever you say dear” sort of bloke, and it seemed as if every name I suggested was greeted with: No, Nope, Not that one, I don’t think so, and the occasional Absolutely not. I had a long list of names, and every single one got shot down without explanation. What was most frustrating was that he never suggested any names, so I had no idea what was wrong with all these names, or what names he would prefer.

After lots of arguments that never went anywhere, I came up with a new set of rules. He had to at least tell me what was wrong with the suggested name, or it stayed on the list. And just saying “I don’t like it” wasn’t good enough – he had to explain exactly why he didn’t like it. If his answer was something silly, like “I once worked with someone called that and I didn’t like them”, then the name stayed on the list.

There were a few false starts, as he feared as I would jump down his throat the minute he said anything. But I insisted I’d rather hear the truth, and told him I would hear him out without arguing. He started to elaborate on his Nos, and boy, did the flood gates open.

Sometimes it was hard to hear (some of these were names I loved after all), and sometimes I did break my promise and argued back, but as time went on it got easier and easier. The best part was that we were no longer deadlocked, and as he explained what was wrong with every single name I suggested, I started to get a feel for his tastes. That meant that rather than thrash out every name, I could automatically cross off those similar to ones he disliked.

Here are some of the highlights (?) of the process.

BOYS

Alistair
Him: Too posh. People will think he has a country estate and a trust fund, but instead he’ll have a swing set and a piggy bank.
Me: Perhaps that will teach people not to stereotype names.
Him: There’s breaking stereotypes, and then there’s committing fraud. This is more the second one.

Ari
Him (surprised): Oh … I like that one! What language is it from?
Me: It’s Old Norse.
Him: Awsome, I love Scandinavian names. What does it mean?
Me: Eagle.
Him (outraged): What kind of sick meaning is that? How could anyone be so twisted as to call their child evil?
Me: Not evil … eagle. Like the bird.
Him: Well, now all I can think of is evil when I hear it.
(This ended in a heated discussion about people who don’t listen versus people who don’t speak clearly enough).

Angus
Our surname starts with Wil-, so any name ending with an S sound will end up having SWILL in it. This one sounds like “Anger Swill”.
(I cross off all names ending in an S sound).

Bede
Sounds like bidet.

Dante
We’re not Italian!

Digby
Sounds like a dog’s name.

Edmund
Me: I thought maybe with Teddy as the nickname, but is it too close to Eddie?
Him: It’s too close to Narnia, if you ask me.
Me: But you said yes to Lucy!
Him: Lucy sounds sweet – Edmund sounds like a little creep who will sell you out to the White Witch for a block of Turkish Delight.

Ezekiel
It’s like someone throwing crockery down a flight of stairs. No weird Old Testament names – they’re ugly.

Felix
Too catty. And we can’t have any names ending in X, because it sounds the same as something ending in S.
(I cross off all names ending in X).

Gabriel
Too girly.

Hamish
Him: I really hate Scottish names – they’re ugly and pretentious.
Me: But Scottish names are traditional in your family.
Him: Yeah well this is one tradition coming to an end now because I hate them!
(I cross off all Scottish names, gloomily knowing my parents-in-law will blame me).

Hugo
It’s a cartoon villain name.

Jago
It will get twisted around into Gay Joe.

James
Him: That’s the most boring boy’s name in existence.
Me (enraged): It – is – my – father’s – name!
Him (aghast): What? No! Your dad’s name is Fred!
Me: His name is James – his nickname is Fred!
(This ended in a heated discussion about people who don’t bother to learn their own father-in-law’s name versus people who cause confusion because their nicknames are nothing like their actual name).

Jasper
Him: Yuk, sounds evil.
Me: It doesn’t – Jasper is a saint who brought gifts to baby Jesus.
Him: No, Jasper is a crook who stole Dalmatian puppies so a demon hag could turn them into coats!

Jarvis
“Jar of swill” – don’t you remember the whole discussion we had about Angus?
(Oops, forgot to cross it off).

Jude
Hey Jude, na na na na – aargh that song is an earworm, now I’ll never get it out of my head.

Leander
Him: For a boy or a girl?
Me: It’s a boy’s name.
Him: Well it sounds like a mix of Leanne and Miranda.
Me: What if you think of it more as a mix of Leo and Alexander?
Him: I hate Leo and Alexander.
(I secretly cross Leo and Alexander off the list).

Monty
Monty Python.

Oscar
Too grouchy.

Owen
Sounds as if he will always be owin’ money.

Rafael
We’re not Spanish!

GIRLS

Allegra
Him: What would we call her – Leggy? Where does it come from, anyway?
Me (evasively): Well, Lord Byron had a daughter named Allegra.
Him: What happened to her – did she end up famous, like that other daughter?
Me: Um, no … he took her from her mother and stuck her in a convent, and she died.
Him: That’s horrible! This name should be banned!

Clementine
She drowned!

Cordelia
Him: Her senile father didn’t love her! Why are all these names after girls abused by their dads?
Me: Clementine wasn’t abused.
Him: No, her father committed suicide!

Cressida
Him: Wasn’t she a prostitute?
Me: No.
Him: Well it reminds me of watercress anyway.

Harriet
I only like pretty girls’ names.

Esther
Me: This was my favourite teacher’s name.
Him: Too chemical-y.

Jemima
Him: Would she be named after the rag-doll, or the duck?
Me: Maybe after the beautiful daughter of Job in the Bible.
Him: So we’d be naming our daughter after a woman whose father was tortured for no reason? Can we not have any names from stories where the father has a terrible time, please?
(I cross off Keziah).

Lyra
Sounds like liar.

Madeleine
Me: I’m not sure about this one, what do you think?
Him: Nothing that starts with the word mad.

Saskia
Sounds like a snake hissing.

Sylvia
Him: No names starting with S, because look at the initial.
Me: You mean SW, south-west?
Him: No, S. Wil-, swill!
Me: Oh not this again.

Ursula
Him: Don’t you realise the joke on Friends was that Phoebe had a nice name while her evil twin Ursula had an awful one?
Me: So you like the name Phoebe?
Him: Yes.
Me: Me too, let’s add it to the list.
(Partial success!)

Virginia
It looks like virgin and sounds like vagina.

Zara
I hate names that start with Z.

As we worked through the process, it was apparent what names had to go – apart from anything Scottish, Old Testament, starting with Z, ending with X, or starting or ending with S. He didn’t like names that had negative meanings or associations, especially ones from childhood, and was exquisitely sensitive towards anything which sounded even vaguely negative or ridiculous.

Fussy and over-sensitive about names? Now that’s something a name nerd can understand. We weren’t so different after all.

POLL RESULTS
People thought the names that were most unfairly rejected by my husband were James and Harriet. However, there seemed to be sympathy for his views on Bede and Jarvis, as they received no votes to “save” them.

(Cartoon from the Daily Mail)

What Would You Call Archer and Cleo’s Baby Sister?

15 Saturday Nov 2014

Posted by in Naming Assistance

≈ 9 Comments

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BROTHER AND SISTER

Lydia and Oliver have a son named Archer, and a daughter named Cleo – Lydia found the blog quite helpful when they were choosing Cleo’s name. They didn’t plan to have more children, but are expecting another girl next month. Now they feel at something of a loss when it comes to names.

The two front runners at the moment are Edie and Quinn. Lydia has been thinking about Edie and loving it ever since she found she was pregnant, while Quinn is a recent name love which seems cute and sassy, like Cleo. Lydia wonders if Quinn is feminine enough for a girl, although she has been tracking it in birth announcements on the blog, and believes that its use skews more towards the pink end of the spectrum.

Other names that have been considered are Amelie nn Millie (she worries that it would constantly get turned into Emily, just as Cleo is often mistakenly called Chloe), Milla nn Millie, and Lexie. Lydia loves the name Holly, but their one-syllable surname ends with an OW sound (eg Bough), and Oliver says Holly Bough sounds too much like “Holy Cow”. Lydia wonders whether it does really?

Oliver likes the names Alice, Zoe, Molly, and Elle/Ellie, but Lydia has vetoed all of them. She thinks that Cleo and Elle sound odd as sisters, as they are both titles of women’s magazines. Lydia likes the name Eve, but a friend has a daughter of this name, and she’d feel bad about forcing her to name-share, although that wouldn’t stop her if it was the clear favourite.

The middle name will probably be a family name, maybe Joy or Hannah, although they’re not sure yet. Lydia feels that once they have selected the name, the middle name will slot into place pretty naturally.

Lydia would ideally like a name that’s ahead of the curve that won’t be confused with other names, loves names that either start or end with a vowel, names that can be shortened to an -ee sound nickname (eg Quinnie), likes the letter X, and fancies a name starting with E, so the children’s initials would spell ACE, but these are just nice-to-haves rather than must-haves.

Lydia wonders what people think of Edie and Quinn, and if there are any other names that would suit a sister for Archer and Cleo?

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I think Edie is a great choice which seems to tick pretty much all of your boxes. It’s fashionable and spunky like Cleo, and has a relaxed casual feel like Archer. It also seems a bit like Oliver’s choice of Ellie, and would sound great with the middle name Joy, if you end up using it.

The only drawback that occurs to me is that a mum who wrote in to the blog last year said that she had a daughter named Edie, and people often misread it or mispronounced it as Eddie – maybe they thought it was short for Edwina? I’m only mentioning that because you said you would prefer a name that didn’t get mistaken for other names, although it seems as if many shortish girls’ names get muddled (as an Anna who gets called Hannah or Emma, I think most get used to it).

Quinn is also a great choice – it’s sleek and modern, and in a similar style to Archer and Cleo. I think make sure that you feel comfortable saying and calling Cleo and Quinn together on a regular basis, because although they look very different, they start with the same sound.

The only data I have for the name Quinn is the 2012 complete data from Victoria, and that shows Quinn to be fairly evenly unisex – 24 girls named Quinn, and 30 boys. That tallies with my own observations, because I quite often see a girl named Quinn and a boy named Quinn in the same week of birth notices. (Girl Quinns have been selected for the Birth Announcements on the blog more often than boys, as they tend to have more stylish or interesting middle names). I think it seems suitable for either sex.

Holly -ow did not particularly sound like Holy Cow to me – it reminded me more of Holly Bough, which is why I selected Bough as your fill-in surname. The trouble is, no matter what anyone else says, if Oliver hears it as Holy Cow, he’s probably always going to hear it as Holy Cow, so I think it has to be crossed off as a possibility.

Here are some other names which might appeal:

Eden
I thought this might work with Edie as the nickname. It’s clean and modern like Quinn, unisex but more obviously feminine in usage, associated with Eve, and sounds nice with Joy as the middle name. It’s popular, but still at the bottom of the Top 100, and is on the upswing without rising rapidly. Is this too religious or too gardeny for you?

Millie
You seem really keen on Millie, but can’t quite find the right name to get there, while Oliver has Molly as one of his favourites. Millie is so spunky and stylish, and I think Archer, Cleo and Millie sound wonderful together. If you are considering Edie as a stand-alone name, why not Millie?

Minnie
Millie + Quinnie = Minnie? This is an extremely cute name that’s super sassy – it’s so ready for a comeback, and is already doing well in the UK.

Romy/Romie
This is such a hip little name, and I think it makes a great match with Cleo. It has the same syllable sounds as Zoe, which Oliver likes.

Roxy/Roxie
If you like Lexie, how do you feel about Roxie? To me it has that same sassy feel as Cleo.

Hallie
This short form of Harriet is in line with Holly, Molly, Ellie, and Millie, and like Cleo, is a vintage choice which seems fresh and contemporary. I’m wondering if Hallie -ow still sounds like another phrase to Oliver, though.

Heidi
Reminds me of both Holly and Hannah. I hope Oliver doesn’t hear it as sounding too much like “hide a cow”, or “cowhide”.

Hazel
Somehow this pretty name reminds me of both Holly and Zoe, and if you used Zellie as the nickname, might seem like Ellie without being too run of the mill. It seems like an interesting and unexpected match with Archer and Cleo, although like Quinn it doesn’t follow the pattern of beginning or ending with a vowel.

Winnie
You love the sound of Quinnie, so how about Winnie? It’s ahead of the curve and just adorable.

Xanthe
It’s got an X, but it doesn’t have an X sound – is that a problem? I think it sounds lovely with Cleo.

It sounds as if you really love both Edie and Quinn, and either one of those names could very well be your perfect choice. Even if a name seems to have a few little niggles, it’s best to follow your heart rather than look for something which looks perfect on paper, but doesn’t feel right.

Readers, what do you think of Edie or Quinn as a sister to Archer and Cleo? And what other names could be suitable?

UPDATE: The baby’s name was Edie!

POLL RESULT: Edie was the public’s top choice for the baby’s name, receiving 16% of the vote, and Eden, with the nickname Edie, was only just behind. Quinn received half as many votes, with 8%.

(Painting by Pino Daeni)