• About
  • Best Baby Names
  • Celebrity Baby Names
  • Celebrity Baby Names – Current
  • Celebrity Baby Names – Past
  • Featured Boys Names
  • Featured Girls Names
  • Featured Unisex Names
  • Links to Name Data
  • Waltzing on the Web

Waltzing More Than Matilda

~ Names with an Australian Bias of Democratic Temper

Waltzing More Than Matilda

Tag Archives: Baby Name Explorer

Save Our Susans and Protect The Peter: The Ridiculous World of “Endangered” Names

17 Sunday Jan 2016

Posted by A.O. in Names in the News

≈ 5 Comments

Tags

Baby Name Explorer, classic names, middle names, name data, name popularity, Nancy's Baby Names, popular names, retro names, Sydney Morning Herald

Susan SocietyA wave of articles on “endangered” names has been flooding my inbox since last year, and eventually some poor sap from the Sydney Morning Herald with minimal interest in names got roped into providing some scary statistics for New South Wales, so now I have to cover it too.

(I know they’re not interested in names because they think Jessica is a Hebrew name meaning “rich” – it isn’t Hebrew, and doesn’t mean anything of the sort).

By accessing the Baby Name Explorer database of names in NSW from 1900 to 2011, they found that the names that were fast disappearing were John, Robert, Peter, and David for boys, and Mary, Margaret, Susan, and Karen for girls.

In the world of manufactured name problems, this is surely one of the daftest. Here is why the sudden concern over endangered names is nonsensical.

The Statistics are Wrong
John and David are still in the Top 100, which they have never left after more than a century, and the Baby Name Explorer actually shows them increasing in usage in 2011. This is surely the exact OPPOSITE of disappearing or endangered.

Mary, Peter and Robert were only just outside the Top 100 in 2011 (Mary was #101), and the graph shows that both Mary and Robert had increased usage in 2011, while Peter’s position had remained extremely stable for some time.

Margaret increased in usage in 2011, and even Karen had an uptick which brought into back onto the charts that year. Susan was the only name on the list which had actually dropped off the charts by 2011.

How did they get it so wrong? By selecting names that had been #1 for a particular decade, so that their drop in popularity would look alarmingly steep, and then completely ignoring the names’ ranking and usage.

Mary was #1 in 1900 and had dropped to #101 in 2011 – in other words it only went down 100 places in 111 years! That’s very stable: the kind of stability that made Mary the overall #1 girl’s name of the twentieth century.

The “resurrected” names were equally silly, with William, Jack, Ruby, and Grace cited as names which had made brave comebacks against the odds. William has never been out of the Top 50, so it can hardly be said to have ever gone away, while Jack and Grace are classics which have never been lower than #400. Retro Ruby is the only name which has ever been off the charts and returned.

Why couldn’t the article identify any names which actually were still in use yet fast disappearing? Because the Baby Name Explorer only covers the 1200 most popular names of the century, so that any name still on the charts by 2011 was getting reasonable, and often increasing, usage. You can’t make useful statistics out of insufficient data.

The Data Doesn’t Include Middle Names
Margaret may only be around the 400s as a first name, but it’s a fairly common middle name for girls – probably in the Top 100 of middle names. Dorothy may not chart any more, but it’s not unusual in the middle. It doesn’t really matter whether a name is in the first or middle position: if it’s in use either way, you can hardly claim it as disappearing or long gone.

It’s Misleading to Apply Scientific Terms to Names
Terms like endangered or extinct, taken from environmental science, don’t make any sense when applied to names.

If a plant or animal is endangered, it is very difficult to ensure its survival, and will require specialised breeding programs or seed collecting initiatives, all of which depend on funding. Losing some species may have dire consequences for the planet; for example, we need bees and beetles to pollinate our crops and plants. Worst of all, once they are all gone, we cannot bring them back – no matter how much we long for the dodo, it is done for, and nothing will return it to us.

If a name isn’t used much any more, no great calamity will result. Brangien and Althalos have been rarely used since the Middle Ages, but nobody has suffered as a result of Brangien deficiency, and no awful disaster has ensued from the loss of Althalos.

Furthermore, if we decided we’d like to see more of a particular name which has gone out of use, it costs no money or effort to bring it back. You simply slap the name onto your child’s birth certificate, and hey presto – you’ve got yourself a rare and beautiful specimen of an Althalos.

As long as we still know of a name’s existence from books and records, it is a potential baby name, no matter how many centuries or even millennia since it was last used. (Thank you Nancy from Nancy’s Baby Names for pointing out this absurdity).

I hope you can all sleep more soundly now, knowing that herds of Johns and Davids wander at will, the Mary and the Peter are gambolling freely, and numbers of Margarets and Roberts are secure for the foreseeable future. We even have high hopes for the diminished Susan, which may yet return to a sustainable population as 1950s names prepare to come back into fashion.

I do wonder what effect these kinds of articles have on people though. Does it make them more likely to “save” the “endangered” names, knowing that not as many people are using them now, or does it put people off the names even more, in the belief that they would be choosing a baby name heading for the scrapheap?

POLL RESULTS
74% of people said being told a name was in danger of disappearing didn’t make any difference as to whether they would use it or not. 21% said they would be more likely to use the name, knowing it was a normal name that was currently underused. 5% would be less likely to use the name, knowing it had gone out of fashion and may be disliked by others.

39% of people thought we should save the name Susan, while 61% believed we shouldn’t bother.

 

What Makes a Baby Name Trendy?

03 Sunday Aug 2014

Posted by A.O. in Your Questions Answered

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

Baby Name Explorer, Biblical names, classic names, modern classic names, name data, name popularity, name trends, names from popular culture, popular names, saints names, trendy names

trendy baby

Trendy baby names are a hot topic that’s leaving parents feeling anxious. Parents write in to the blog to say they don’t want a trendy name, or are worried that their favourite baby name might be too trendy.

Yet what exactly is a trendy baby name? Even the authors of articles on trendy baby names disagree on the subject, or are vague as to what “trendy” actually means (many seem to think it just means popular, although parents often say popularity doesn’t bother them, as long as the name isn’t trendy).

We could fall back on that old chestnut, “I know it when I see it”, but I thought we might try for something a little more concrete. So instead we’ll look at the factors which might be linked with a name being considered “trendy”.

Going up rapidly in popularity …

This is the one which nearly everyone first thinks of – a name which is going up steeply in popularity, so that its progress through the charts looks like a mountainside or a cliff; even more so, a name which suddenly jumps in popularity in a single year.

This gets some parents so worried that even a modest increase can have them fretting because a name went up seven or eight places, but I think a name has to go up at least twenty places before it really draws attention to itself. Names in this category from last year include Aria, Penelope, Louis, and Nathaniel.

Nathaniel rising

But here’s the good news: often after a huge boost in the charts, a name will settle down and continue rising at a steadier pace, or even stabilise. Names such as Harper, Flynn, Ivy, and Sienna have had a big jump in previous years, but are now just comfortably trundling along.

… only to come down just as rapidly …

This really is a classic sign of a trendy name – it not only goes up the charts steeply, it comes down again at a similar rate, so that its progress through the charts has a cone shape; the skinnier the cone, the less years it was popular, and the more spectacular has been the name’s rise and fall. Kylie‘s cone, for example, looks quite thin.

kylie trendy

The trouble is that this isn’t very helpful for predicting whether a particular name will be trendy. It’s strictly a post mortem technique, so by the time you realise you chose a trendy name, it’s too late – your child is thirty six years old and nobody cares anyway.

Some people fear that any name going up steeply in popularity is sure to come down steeply as well, but this isn’t necessarily the case. For example, imagine you chose the name Jennifer for your daughter in the 1930s. It jumped straight into the Top 100 from nowhere, which seems very alarming, but it remained in the Top 100 for seven more decades. Your little Jenny would have collected her old age pension before her name stopped being popular, and even today Jennifer is only around the 200-300s and fairly stable. It never fell as dramatically as it rose.

Jennifer

For this reason, it seems a bit silly to avoid a name that’s trending upwards. If anything, the message seems to be to jump on a trend as early as possible, because it’s cooler to be a Jennifer born in 1935 than one born in 2000, even though the popularity was around the same in those two years.

… and has reached a certain level of popularity

Even though trendiness and popularity are not the same thing, it’s only once a name becomes reasonably popular that most people start to call it trendy, even if it’s been zooming up the charts for several years. It needs to be used by enough people that it can have those impressive rises in rank, as well as enough visibility to be considered trendy.

So Melva might have a steep rise and descent, but as it never reached the Top 100, it doesn’t get mentioned as a past trendy name. Persistently low usage does help protect a name against a charge of trendiness from most people (not all).

melva

New to the charts

I know many will disagree with this one, but I believe that no matter how rapidly a name is rising, it’s not trendy if it has previously been on the charts. Otherwise you get comments like “Leo is both classic and trendy“. Which is absurd when you think about it – like describing someone as an extremely tiny giant, or a colour as a very pale shade of black – because classic and trendy are opposing terms. I would say Leo is a rising contemporary classic, not a trendy classic.

Leo rising classic

Names that have been on the charts previously and disappeared before returning again are retro names. No matter how much Nathaniel may be zooming up the charts at present, I don’t consider it to be trendy, as it already has a history as a traditional name.

Inspired or boosted by popular culture

Any name that has suddenly got a boost in the charts (or even just in the public consciousness) due to a popular song, movie, TV show, celebrity, or celebrity baby is liable to be labelled “trendy”, whether it’s Elsa, Khaleesi, Penelope, Jagger, George, or Banjo.

I think that’s very unfair, because if you look through the history of naming, people have always named their children after the celebrities and culture of their day. By this standard, familiar names such as William, Eleanor, Alexander, Cordelia, Stanley, Fiona, Eric, and Rosamund have all been “trendy”. In fact, you could include all the Bible names and saints’ names in that group as well, since saints were the celebrities of the Middle Ages, and the Bible everyone’s favourite book.

Fitting in with one or more name trends

Another thing that can get a name labelled trendy, even if it’s in rare use, is if it fits in with current naming trends, especially with multiple trends. So you might claim that Liliana is a trendy name, because it fits in with the trend for L-L names for girls, like Lila, and with the trend for elaborate names for girls, like Isabella.

The trouble is that by this logic, practically every name being used today could be labelled as “trendy” – it’s very difficult to avoid ALL name trends.

This article mentions some of the current baby name trends in Australia: patriotic names, surnames as first names, place names as first names, nicknames as first names, and biblical names. Remove all those, and the choices dwindle significantly. And this isn’t even touching on mythological names, vintage names, unisex names, rare names, uniquely spelled names, literary names, virtue names, nature names, vocabulary names, and boys’ names ending with N.

* * * * * * * * * *

There you have it: six things might get your baby name labelled trendy. And the more categories it fits into, the more likely that it will seem trendy to somebody. So the current most “trendy” name in the Top 100 is Aria – it’s climbing fast, quite popular, new to the charts, inspired by popular culture, and fitting in with current trends, such as the AR sound in names.

Of course, in the 1970s there was a name which rocketed into the Top 100 from nowhere, had never been on the charts before, with use boosted by a popular singer, and whose sound fit in with other popular girls’ names such as Emily and Felicity. That name was Olivia, and although it may have been trendy in 1978, it isn’t any more. Aria could become equally as established, or even a modern classic, so there’s no guarantee that a trendy name will stay trendy.

Olivia

The big question is: what exactly is so terrible about a trendy baby name anyway? We’re always being told to avoid trendy baby names, and rarely are we given a reason. It’s just taken for granted that of course you don’t want to give your child a trendy name, in the same way that of course you don’t want them to put their hand on a hot stove.

About the only thing I can come up is that trendy names tend to become dated, except that a) sometimes they don’t eg William and b) most names date eventually anyway, even classics eg Susan.

And even if your name doesn’t become dated, it isn’t going to make your life especially wonderful. I have a non-trendy classic name which is still reasonably popular, and not only has it failed to provide me with a magically charmed life where nothing ever went wrong, its impact has been minimal at best. Meanwhile, my peers with the trendy names of our generation, such as Jodi and Jason, don’t seem to have had their lives ruined by their names.

* * * * * * * * * *

So there you have it – trendy names are something to be avoided, even though there’s no compelling evidence they’re particularly awful, or that a trendy name will remain trendy; there’s not even any real proof that trendy names actually exist as an objective phenomenon. And the criteria as to what is trendy is so broad that almost any name you can think of can be labelled as such.

Perhaps it’s time to put this baby name bogeyman behind us.

POLL RESULTS
The things that most people thought made a name trendy were:

* destined to fall as quickly as it rose – 23%
* rapidly rising in popularity – 13%
* boosted by popular culture – 12%

26% of people thought a name had to fulfil at least two or more of the stated requirements before being considered trendy, while 7% thought that it had to fulfil all six of the requirements to be a trendy name.

Just 1% of people thought that being new to the charts made a name trendy.

2% of people did not think there was any such thing as a “trendy” name.

(Popularity charts from Baby Names Explorer)

Enter your email address to follow this blog

Categories

Archives

Recent Comments

waltzingmorethanmati… on Zarah Zaynab and Wolfgang…
Madelyn on Zarah Zaynab and Wolfgang…
drperegrine on Can Phoebe Complete This …
waltzingmorethanmati… on Rua and Rhoa
redrover23 on Rua and Rhoa

Blogroll

  • Appellation Mountain
  • Baby Name Pondering
  • Babynamelover's Blog
  • British Baby Names
  • Clare's Name News
  • For Real Baby Names
  • Geek Baby Names
  • Name Candy
  • Nameberry
  • Nancy's Baby Names
  • Ren's Baby Name Blog
  • Sancta Nomina
  • Swistle: Baby Names
  • The Art of Naming
  • The Baby Name Wizard
  • The Beauty of Names
  • Tulip By Any Name

RSS Feed

  • RSS - Posts

RSS Posts

  • Celebrity Baby News: Melanie Vallejo and Matt Kingston
  • Names from the TV Show “Cleverman”
  • Can Phoebe Complete This Sibset?
  • Zarah Zaynab and Wolfgang Winter
  • Baby, How Did You Get That Name?

Currently Popular

  • Celebrity Baby News: Nicki Gemmell and Andrew Sholl
  • Girls Names of Australian Aboriginal Origin
  • The Top 100 Names of the 1940s in New South Wales
  • Girls Names From Native Australian Flowers
  • Celebrity Baby News: Brad and Penny Scott

Tags

celebrity baby names celebrity sibsets english names famous namesakes fictional namesakes honouring locational names middle names name combinations name history name meaning name popularity name trends nicknames popular names saints names sibsets surname names twin sets unisex names

Blog at WordPress.com.

  • Follow Following
    • Waltzing More Than Matilda
    • Join 514 other followers
    • Already have a WordPress.com account? Log in now.
    • Waltzing More Than Matilda
    • Customize
    • Follow Following
    • Sign up
    • Log in
    • Report this content
    • View site in Reader
    • Manage subscriptions
    • Collapse this bar
 

Loading Comments...