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Tag Archives: family interference

Name News: Baby Name Predictions, “Banned” Baby Names, and Grandparents Weigh In

21 Saturday Nov 2015

Posted by in Names in the News

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Name Trend Predictions for 2016
Social researcher Mark McCrindle, whose company collates the national Top 100 each year, has made his annual predictions on what name trends we will witness for next year.

1. Currently popular names will lose popularity
McCrindle says that names have about “a decade of popularity”. I’m guessing he’s referring to the Top 10 as “popular”, because it’s not uncommon for names to spend half a century or more in the Top 100. As such, Charlotte and Emily are slated to go down in popularity (these seem like VERY safe bets, as Charlotte has already gone down, while Emily has been decreasing in popularity since the late 2000s). Likewise, it’s bye-bye to Noah and Cooper.

2. Short names
Long names are generally declining, while short names are holding steady. He’s predicting more Eve, Gia, and Ivy for the girls, while Ash, Ed, and Max seem like reasonable bets for the boys.

3. The 1950s are back in style
Our grandparents names are now starting to seem a lot cooler, while still having that reassuring feel of familiarity. Why not Judith, Robyn, and Heather for girls, and Bernard, Stephen, and Andrew for boys?

4. Names with staying power
The babies being born now are predicted to have longer lifespans and continue working for longer than ever before. Solid names that sound equally good on a baby and an elderly person are advised for this generation. He thinks Audrey, Olivia, and Violet fit the bill for girls, while Daniel, Edward, and William are names for boys that will withstand the test of time.

5. Uncommon names will become more common
The number of babies with a Top 10 name shrinks each year, which means we’re selecting from an ever-wider pool of names. He suggests Olive and Sage for girls, Orson and Sawyer for boys (Olive is already in the Top 100, so not actually all that uncommon – could the pool be smaller than reported?). Also it looks like it’s nature names for girls, surname names for boys.

Predictions for 2016 from the Northern Territory
A rather confusingly-written article from the Northern Territory News says that it has a list of 60 “predictions” for next year’s popular baby names in the Territory. Where this list comes from they do not say – it may be a list of names actually registered this year, or perhaps a psychic vision from a local swami able to penetrate the birth registry through the Veil of Illusion with their Third Eye.

Some of the names on the list are Aspen, Cairo, Cleo, Darwin, Devon, Herbert, Khaleesi, Lawson, Miller, Monroe, Niles, Presley, Virginia, and Ziggy. Rather depressingly, the Arabic name Safiyaa is considered to be “made up”.

In any case, these sixty names will not all be on the popular list for next year, as the Northern Territory only has a Top 20.

Grandparents Naming Rights – Should They Have Any?
Seniors website Starts at Sixty discusses a naming trend they read about in the New York Times – rich people bribing their children with hefty financial incentives for the right to name their grandchildren. One reason for the trend is said to be the shift away from traditional naming practices towards choosing something more unusual.

The SAS writers have a bob each way by both condemning the practice, and saying that if their children were going to pick something outlandish like Apple, they’d be reaching for the chequebook quick smart. They suggest a compromise: grandparents can’t choose a name, but they get free right of veto.

Well sorry grandparents but I don’t even support a free veto, and if you read this article, you will see why! Some people would veto even common names.

I’m happy to say that most of the seniors who commented said that it was the parents’ right to name their own children, and reminded the website that they had already got to choose their own childrens’ names.

They also reminded us that this is hardly a new trend – one had a grandmother whose mother paid her to name her son Owen. Grandparent disapproval is nothing new either, as others reported that their own choice of baby name was greeted coldly by their parents. Others did report some success at suggesting baby names without resorting to bribery, so no need for grandparents to give up in despair either.

Banned Baby Names
There’s a list of banned baby names in Australia doing the rounds, copied from Scoopla. Supposedly these names were all banned in 2015, which is nonsense – I have seen these names before on lists going back for years. Some of them may be urban myths, as there is no source given for this (mis)information, while others may be simply hypothetical examples given by birth registries, and not actual names submitted for registration.

Read for fun, but with so many grains of salt that you will need to drink copious amounts of water for the rest of the day.

POLL RESULTS
People’s favourite baby name trend trend for 2016 was names that sound equally good on babies and the elderly, gaining 43% of the vote. Their least favourite was 1950s names, which 11% of people voted for.

Most people (62%) thought that grandparents should be free to make baby name suggestions, but with no expectation that they would be followed. However, a significant minority (36%) felt that they should stay out of the baby naming process altogether. 1% thought that grandparents should be allowed to veto a name they hated if it was very strange, and one person thought that if grandparents wanted to choose the baby name, they could pay for the privilege. Nobody was in favour of grandparents being allowed significant input into the baby naming process otherwise.

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Family Criticism Has Made Her Anxious About Baby Names

15 Saturday Aug 2015

Posted by in Naming Assistance

≈ 7 Comments

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Sinead and William have two small daughters named Orla and Freya, and would love another child. Although they aren’t expecting yet, Sinead is already anxious about choosing baby names due to the reactions they got from William’s family with the first two names.

Criticisms of the names Orla and Freya have ranged from ignorant (the names are “masculine” or “old lady” names), to ridiculous (“It sounds fat”), to vulgar (fancied similarities between the names and obscene words). The criticism is ongoing even after a year or two, and they always gleefully pass on any silly or mean comments they receive about the names from others (“Mrs Tenby mixed Orla up with orca!”).

When they’re not name bullying their own flesh and blood, William’s family are nice, sane, ordinary country people, the salt of the earth and pillars of their community. They don’t have much of a filter, and distrust anything unfamiliar. They kept pointing out to Sinead and William how all the nice girls’ names were in the Top 10, and wouldn’t they prefer Chloe and Georgia?

Sinead has tried to express how she feels to her in laws, and explain why they chose the names, but the response is always along the lines of: You shouldn’t have picked ugly, weird names for your children if you didn’t want people to say that they’re ugly and weird.

William loves their daughters’ names, and is proud of them. When Sinead almost gave in to the name nagging and chose a Top 50 name for their first daughter, William insisted they go with the name they actually loved. However, he feels that his family have their hearts in the right place, and are only being honest. He thinks Sinead shouldn’t be too sensitive about a bit of family teasing.

Sinead’s background is slightly different to William’s. Her parents are Irish immigrants, and she grew up in the suburbs of a large city. She loved that her mum and dad named her Sinead Euphemia, a name that stood out amongst her friends and classmates. Growing up, Sinead was confident enough to correct children and adults on the pronunciation of her name, and enjoyed discussing her name with others.

However her little sister Aoife Catherine had a very different experience. Shy and reserved by nature, she felt humiliated whenever her name got mangled, and readily submitted to being called Eva to avoid any fuss. By the time she was in kindergarten, she insisted on being known by her middle name, and now goes by Kate. Her sister’s experience also makes Sinead wary of choosing anything too unusual, and fearful she may have burdened her daughters with names that could likewise cause them problems.

Sinead has a nice list of possible names that she loves, but almost every one of them makes her pause and wonder if it will be dragged through the mud by her in laws, or end up being more drama than its worth. She has already cut Saoirse, Cillian, Saskia, and Ceridwen for fear they will be “too weird” for people to cope with.

GIRLS
Maeve (her first choice, but their surname is similar to Grove – is Maeve Grove too much?)
Inez (has been told it sounds like a rude word)
Isobel
Astrid
Thea
Marion
Gwen (is Gwen Grove too alliterative?)
Sian
Carys

Middle name would almost certainly be Elizabeth, but Eleanor is a strong contender (both family names). Neither of these names sound right with Isobel, which would probably eliminate it.

BOYS
Alasdair (but feels in laws will only accept Alistair or Alastair)
Euan
Leon
Leo
Theo
Sebastian
Samuel
Lewis
Louis
Dominic
Henry
Anthony
Rowan

The middle name would be John, William, or Gordon.

Sinead feels a bit silly writing in about names for a baby who doesn’t exist yet, but she would love to get some feedback on names which isn’t from her in laws and to feel less anxiety about choosing another baby name.

* * * * * * * * * *

Sinead, I think it would be foolish for you to choose baby names based on the opinions of your in laws. As you know, their tastes are very conservative, and they are highly resistant to learning anything new. It’s a big wide world outside the cow paddock, but they don’t seem to want to know about it.

I think their comments have been appalling and unacceptable. Yet I can’t help feeling a bit sorry for your in laws. You’re a bright, highly educated, very successful woman, and without meaning to, I’m sure a hundred times you have made them feel like stupid, unsophisticated bumpkins.

You’re from the big smoke with fancy ways and book learning, and you make them look pretty small pond in comparison. I do think that they use your children’s names as a way to cut you down to size, and put you in your place.

It’s something a lot of families do, and look at this article I found on Clare’s Name News with daft reactions to baby names – even standard names like Poppy and Sebastian get absolutely hammered. I know plenty of people who’ve chosen popular names for their children, and they’re still too “weird” for the older generation.

I hope your inlaws plan to cut this out once your daughters are old enough to understand what they’re saying. However, I’m not too worried about your girls if they don’t. Because look at their parents – a mum who was a feisty little girl ready to stand up for her name, and a thick-skinned dad who says, “We love your names, and we don’t give a hoot what grandma thinks”. Not to mention some very outspoken relatives, so your inlaws might get a taste of their own medicine one day!

Another reason it would be crazy to make name decisions based on what your in laws think is that they are quite simply wrong. There’s nothing bad about the names Orla and Freya, and they don’t seem particularly burdensome. They’re pretty names with an interesting history, and they’re fairly easy to spell and pronounce.

Freya is not far out of the Top 100, so it’s not at all rare – in fact, parents often fret about using it, because “it’s getting too common” (Australian actresses Freya Stafford and Freya Tingley have given it a boost). Orla is much less common, but it’s one of those names you see often enough that it doesn’t seem outrageous: so far this year I have seen one baby named Orla. There’s also the foreign affairs journalist Orla Guerin from the BBC – have your in laws ever seen her on the news?

I wonder if you have been too busy to attend a playgroup or mother’s group in your community, because I would be surprised if you received any rude comments from other parents about Freya and Orla, or that they would have any problems with them. I’m sure they will fit in just fine with the kids in their area – I see baby names from your region quite often, and they have a pretty broad range, with several hip vintage and nature names. Freya and Orla may well have classmates called Elva, Lucian, and Fox!

Your sister’s experience with her name should give you courage rather than add to your fears, because it shows that even if someone doesn’t care for their name, it’s not a big problem. Your smart little sister was able to solve her name woes by the age of five by simply using her middle name. Mind you, I think the name Aoife would have been much harder to cope with when she was a child than it would be today: we’ve moved on so much since then. Okay, not where your inlaws live – but most other places!

I think you should make a list of names that you and William like, and not bother with what your inlaws will think of them. Clearly they’re not going to be happy unless you choose something like Jack or Sophie, and are probably going to make unpleasant comments no matter what name you pick. Besides, they’ve already got to choose their own childrens’ names – why should they get to help choose yours as well?

I feel a bit sad you’ve eliminated Saskia based on some silly comments from your inlaws. It’s such a pretty name, and it’s rather fashionable at the moment. Actress Saskia Burmeister has given it a boost, and there’s also been a popular kid’s TV series featuring a teenager named Saskia. Saoirse isn’t that uncommon either – there’s a couple of young actresses with this name, including Saoirse Ronan. It would probably have a couple of pronunciation issues though.

Maeve seems like a wonderful choice – fashionable, Irish, goes well with Orla and Freya, and easy to cope with. Maeve Grove is a bit awkward, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a dealbreaker. I do think Gwen Grove is too much though: it’s a real tongue-twister, and sounds like Glengrove with a lisp. Inez doesn’t sound like a rude word to me, unless I’m either mispronouncing the name or the rude word! However, I’m never sure how to pronounce this name, as everyone seems to say it differently. All your other choices are great, and I think Carys is a fantastic match with Orla and Freya.

Your boys’ choices are all really handsome, but quite conservative compared to the names you have picked for girls. Is that your natural name style, or have you been scared out of anything more unusual by family? Alasdair, Euan and Rowan all seem like natural matches with Orla and Freya, but any name you love will be fine.

I really think you are worrying too much, and it’s a shame that other people have spoiled what should be a joyful, exciting pastime – dreaming up names for your future baby! Don’t let them spoil it any longer.

Readers, have family or friends criticised your baby names, and if so, how did you deal with it? And what do you think of Sinead’s name choices?

Urgent Name Help Needed: They’re Completely Stressed About Their Big Baby Name Mess!

20 Saturday Sep 2014

Posted by in Naming Assistance

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The Situation
Charlotte and Jake have been blessed with a beautiful daughter, and they couldn’t be happier – except that she was born seven weeks ago and they still haven’t decided on a name for her. Charlotte was relieved to read on the blog that no terrible fate awaits parents who don’t make the 60 day registration deadline, but they still need to choose a name as soon as possible.

During the pregnancy they considered the names Myrtle, Elsie, Rosie, Mabel, Maeve, Mae, Agnes, Florence, Iris, Ida, Fern, and Pearl. Jake’s #1 choice for the name is Rosie, which Charlotte isn’t that keen on, while he completely vetoed Pearl. During the name process, Jake went off Iris and Ida.

Just before the birth, their short list of front runners was:
* Myrtle
* Agnes
* Elsie
* Mabel
* Rosie

How the Problem Started
As Charlotte was wheeled off to recover after giving birth, she and Jake were in complete agreement: the baby’s name was Elsie. Charlotte was sure she was an Elsie, and told the doctor that was her daughter’s name. Meanwhile, Jake was telling all the nurses they had chosen the name Elsie.

Unfortunately, Charlotte couldn’t bring herself to commit to Elsie because of a family issue. Elsie is the name of a family member, no longer in the land of the living, that Charlotte didn’t know or have contact with. However, other family members who did know Elsie didn’t get along with her, and weren’t pleased at the prospect of another Elsie in the family.

The baby came home without a name, and Jake was annoyed, believing they should have just stuck with the name Elsie.

Everyone Has an Opinion!
Jake and Charlotte have an older daughter called Olive, and Olive instantly recognised the baby as Myrtle, and called her such. However, Jake and Charlotte had already decided she definitely wasn’t a Myrtle.

Mostly Jake and Charlotte have been calling their daughter Mabel since she was born, and Charlotte is getting a strong emotional attachment to it. However, Charlotte also reasons that if Mabel was such a good name, wouldn’t they have committed to it by now?

Furthermore, they have shared the name Mabel with others, and received extremely negative reactions to it. They’ve been told it’s an awful name, a cow’s name, a scullery maid’s name, and an elderly relative said they could call the baby anything they wanted – but not Mabel.

Charlotte loves the name Fern, but this has resulted in people “pulling faces” when the idea is floated past them. She also worries that Olive and Fern are too botanical together, and wonders if Fern really has vintage charm, or is it actually a hippie name? She also wonders if Maeve really has that vintage feel as well.

Everyone loves the name Rosie, but Charlotte thinks of it as a “dog name”, and a bit too common.

What Charlotte and Jake Want
* Ideally, a vintage-style name
* A soft, beautiful name to suit their gentle, placid daughter
* A name that isn’t a “burden”
* Jake likes names that have a nickname

Current Name List

* Elsie (Charlotte is still concerned about the family issue, and isn’t sure about the -ie ending)
* Mabel
* Maeve
* Fern
* Martha
* Maggie
* Alice
* Nora
* Edith or Edie (Charlotte not keen)
* Mae (too short, but maybe a nickname for Mabel or Maeve?)
* Agnes, Ida, and Rosie are still in the mix and seem usable, although Jake has gone off Agnes

Middle names they are considering are Birdie, Josephine, and Rose. Charlotte quite fancies Birdie as a short form of Brigid (and it could be her name for everyday use), Jake really loves the thought of an Elsie Josephine, and the Rose is a sop to Jake, so that he can still have the option of calling his daughter Rosie as a nickname.

Where They Are Now
Going around and around in circles and getting stressed and anxious. Charlotte can’t let go of any of the names, and has been through the complete register of all births from 1880 to 1920 to find fresh name inspiration. The 60 day deadline expires next week ….

* * * * * * * * * *

Goodness, you two have got yourself in a real pickle, haven’t you?

This is the fourth time on the blog I have heard of a couple having trouble choosing a baby name after the birth – three of you have written in, and one was a news story. What you all have in common is that other people have become involved in the baby naming process, and in each case, this wasn’t the slightest bit of help, and turned the whole thing into a huge drama that went on for weeks.

You both chose the name Elsie, which I think is a beautiful name which sounds lovely with Olive, and with your surname, and pretty much ticked all your boxes, being vintage, and soft-sounding, and nicknamey. It sounds as if you would have happily come home with a baby called Elsie if not for the opinions of family members.

I tend to agree with Jake – I think you should have just named her Elsie, and announced that as her name. Despite the family disagreement, I don’t think it would have taken them more than a few minutes (a few weeks for anyone of exceptional stubborness) to realise that the Elsie they didn’t care for is gone forever and will never bother them again, while little baby Elsie is a completely separate person and utterly sweet and delightful in every way.

That’s another problem with choosing a baby name several weeks after the birth. Your heart is bursting with love for your daughter, and every minute you fall more and more in love with her. And each day she’s getting cuter and cuter, developing winning little ways and adorable baby quirks. No name is going to seem good enough for her, and a great enough expression of your love, and if you wait until she’s giggling and cooing, you’ll be toast.

You look down at her and think, “Oh she’s such a beautiful baby, so soft and gentle and placid and cuddly and happy. We need an extra specially soft and beautiful and cuddly and happy name for her”. But what name is ever going embody that unique combination of beauty and softness and gentleness and placidity and happiness to your perfect satisfaction?

And she’s so tiny and perfect and fragile and defenceless that you can’t bear the thought of anyone poking fun of her name, and every name you consider seems to have a hidden trap in it. Of course you don’t want her to grow up in a family where people say, “The last Elsie in the family wasn’t very nice”, or amongst friends who say, “Mabel sounds like a cow”, or pull a face when they hear her name. The more time you think about it, the more every name will seem as if it has tease potential.

Also the longer you wait, the more you feel under pressure to come up with something amazing. It will seem ridiculous that it took you three months to pick the name Elsie Josephine or Mabel Rose or Fern Maeve. You have to drop the idea that there’s a perfect name out there that will match your daughter’s personality with exqusisite taste, silence all criticism, be utterly tease-immune, and make everyone think, “Oh well no wonder it took them all this time to find a name that good”.

I have two main pieces of advice for you, and even if you ignore everything else, please please please PLEASE follow these two things in the headline.

1. Nobody Else Gets to Name Your Baby Girl
It’s time the committee meetings on what to call the baby come to a complete halt. Other people haven’t helped, and have made you second guess all the names you’re considering. I feel absolutely furious that people have been so rude about the names you like, and I agree it’s absolutely none of their business. On the other hand – why did you ask?

You worry that their opinions show what your daughter will have to face in the future, yet, being extremely blunt, some of these people will have passed on by the time your daughter reaches adulthood, and your colleagues aren’t going to be part of her life (they won’t even be part of your life forever).

In any case, asking a ton of people for their opinions is a waste of time. The kind of names that  won’t be criticised are ones like Amelia Mae, Chloe Elizabeth or Olivia Grace – “safe” names. And besides, if you were going to pick a name based on what other people approve of, Charlotte would have agreed to Rosie – Jake’s favourite name, which everyone else likes, including me. But none of that matters, because Charlotte doesn’t really like it.

Baby name discussions should only be held between the two of you, in private. Don’t ask other people for their opinions, and if they offer them, just say something like, “Thank you, we’ll have to think that one over”. Don’t let people see that the process is getting you stressed, because that’s an opportunity for them to “help” you. If they ask how the baby name choosing is going, smile brightly and say, “Oh we’re nearly there – we’ll be announcing the name soon”.

If they make a comment about how long it’s taking, say something like, “I know the time we’re taking must seem a little silly to an outsider”, then change the subject at once. That lets them know that it’s no big deal, and puts them firmly on the outside – and the bigger fuss they make, the more of an outsider they become. It’s a polite way of letting them know it’s none of their concern.

2. Your Name List Should Be Getting Shorter, Not Longer!
I’m bewildered as to how you had five names on your name list before going to hospital, and now you have around fifteen. I know you said that you were having trouble letting go of the names, but you’re still adding to your name list, which means you’ll never pick a name at this rate. You’ve even put names that have been vetoed back on the list!

You’ve got to stop thinking up more names, and just stick to what you’ve got. That means no getting out of the shower with a great name you thought up while shampooing your hair, no wondering if a name you vetoed is really that bad and could still be considered, and definitely no going through four decades of birth registers!

Let’s see what names could be trimmed:

Elsie – I think this name has been ruined for Charlotte by her family’s interference, and she’s gone off it because it’s too much like Rosie.
Rosie – Charlotte thinks it’s a dog name, and too common. I disagree, but to heck with me, it’s not my baby.
Maggie – I’m getting the feeling Charlotte isn’t mad about two syllable names ending with -ie. And Maggie is actually a common name for dogs, so if Rosie is out for those reasons, then Maggie should be triply out.
Edith and Edie – Charlotte doesn’t like them.
Mae – you both agreed it’s too short.
Agnes – Jake has gone off it.
Ida – Jake has gone off it.
Iris – Jake has gone off it
Florence – neither has vetoed it, but you never mentioned it again either, so you can’t be that keen

And what’s left:

Maeve, possibly nn Mae
I think it’s a beautiful name, but you did wonder if it sounded vintage, and I don’t think it really sounds vintage at all – it’s only come into common use in Australia quite recently.

Fern
I love the name Fern too, and although some people might see it as hippie, it was quite popular in the late 19th century, mostly in the middle. It does sound botanical with Olive, if that’s an issue. Blog contributor Madelyn suggested Fern as a nickname for Frances – could something like that work?

Martha
This is a very dignified name, and I think it does have that gentle image you were after – although it also seems strong. Very much in line with British name trends too.

Alice
I think this is bang on for beautiful, soft and sweet, and a nice match with Olive, but if you wanted to get technical, it’s a classic rather than a vintage choice. It seems like a great replacement for Elsie – it’s got a vaguely similar sound, without being so alike that it brings back memories of Elsie (as Elsa would, for example).

Nora
Very hip choice, excellent match with Olive, well ahead of the trends. I wonder if it might be too nicknamey for Charlotte’s taste though. If so, what about Eleanor, nn Nora?

Mabel
This just leaves Mabel, which seems like the obvious choice. It’s beautiful, soft and sweet but still spunky; it literally means “lovable”; it’s vintage-style; it makes an awesome match with Olive; it sounds adorable with your surname, and it’s the name you are already calling her, and have taught Olive to call her.

You’ve said that you’re getting emotionally attached to Mabel, which makes me think that you may have already chosen it without quite admitting it to yourselves. You say that the fact that you haven’t committed to it yet shows it can’t really be that great, but you haven’t given yourselves a chance to.

I know other people have been critical about Mabel, but there’s a good reason for that – you’re slightly ahead of the trends, because Mabel only came back on the charts in the 2000s, and it’s not zooming up in a bothersomely trendy way, but remaining fairly stable. People just aren’t used to it yet because it’s so fresh. And your friend who thinks it’s a scullery maid name? Hasn’t she been watching Downton Abbey – doesn’t she know that “scullery maid names” are hot right now?

I love both the middle names you have picked out, and I think Mabel Birdie Rose is utterly, utterly lovely. It gives you the option of calling her either Mae, Birdie, or Rosie for everyday, and luckily you don’t have to register nicknames so you can take as long as you want to decide which one (or use all three if you want – there’s no law on nicknames!)

If it was up to me, I’d say Mabel Birdie Rose. But it’s not up to me – it’s your privilege to name your daughter, and no one else’s. So what will it be?

NAME UPDATE: The baby’s name was Mabel!

POLL RESULT: The overwhelming choice of the public was Mabel, which received more than 50% of the vote.